Douthat gets some pushback on his earlier post concerning assimilation. His argument was simply that he thinks that bigotry can be justified because it, like procedural liberalism, helps immigrants assimilate. It looks bad when you state it like that without running it through the pomposity generator, so he’s stepped back a bit. He wants to draw a distinction between ugly bigotry and positive nativist sentiment, but he concedes that such a distinction is fuzzy and in practice hard to draw, and because he thinks the alternative is European-style assimilation, where no one says anything politically incorrect and immigrants fail to assimilate, better to err on the side of nativist sentiment, which he admits is going to be occasionally indistinguishable from bigotry.
A couple of quick responses. First, while it’s hard to generalize about all of Europe, surely one thing to note is that in many cases the laws of the state are not conducive to assimilation; there is no birthright citizenship in many countries, differences in religious toleration and freedom of speech, differences in attitudes toward the official language. It’s a cute move, but it’s a lot to pin on multicultural squishiness. (The fact that none of these countries take themselves to be composed of immigrant populations that forge a national identity also seems to be relevant.)
Even if we grant Douthat’s claim that bigotry has a causal role in assimilation, that’s far from a moral justification of it. For one, it doesn’t work to cause assimilation, rather than expulsion, unless there’s a structure in place that permits the immigrants to flourish, say by getting educated and practicing their religion, despite the bigotry. Second, there are lots of bad things that have good effects, and that’s not normally sufficient to establish that the bad things should be pursued, especially when the good things (assimilation) are barely even side effects of the purpose of the bad things (no Irish need apply.) He also continually indicates that he thinks of assimilation as the minority culture dropping everything that the dominant culture finds offensive, but historically, assimilation also works just as much by the dominant culture changing. What’s more American than spaghetti and meatballs? Or football?
The final point is simply that most American Muslims are already assimilated just fine. Education, hard work, like their communities. Rauf’s had a mosque in New York City for twenty-seven years. He has more invested in NYC that most of the commentators. Douthat picks examples here and there to show that Rauf is not moderate enough and that the burden of proof should be on Muslims to assimilate by proving they’re not dangerous, that they’re sensitive, and that collective responsibility (“at your father’s mosque, someone who wasn’t you said that Israel bore some responsibility for 9/11 nine years ago…”) is good what to force assimilation. I could argue that he’s cherrypicking his examples, because Rauf is moderate and invested in exactly the sort of program to create a moderate American Islam that Douthat says he wants.
But instead I’ll note that what we have here isn’t a force for assimilation, but exclusion, because he’s telling a group that no matter how much they believe in hard work and blue jeans and making money like everyone else, they’re going to face extra scrutiny whenever they want to exercise their Constitutional rights, a scrutiny that doesn’t apply to Catholics whose spokesmen argue that the real problem with the sex abuse scandal is the negative attention heaped on the Church (“At your mother’s church, a priest argued that the real reason the media cared about the sex abuse scandal was due to secular humanism, so before you form this chapter of Pax Christi at a school…”), a standard that doesn’t apply to churches arguing that the murder of abortion clinic doctors is justifiable homicide, a standard that doesn’t apply to anyone except… Muslims.
21 comments
August 22, 2010 at 11:15 am
JPool
But instead I’ll note that what we have here isn’t a force for assimilation, but exclusion,
Yes, exactly. This is worst kind of abuse of history, comprable to viewing slavery as some sort of necessary civilizing experience.
It’s fascinating to see the kind of comlex convolutions coming out of the right-wing punditocracy. It seems the “serious” right has walked out on this “anti-mosque” plank and now has to find creative ways of justifying themselves. So they go rumaging around in their culture war files and see what they can find. “Ah, I seem to remember us saying something about popular nativist cultural supremacy at various points.” “Wait, yes, during that unpleasant business when people seemed upset about the Mexicans last year.”
I’m not going to go rumaging around in Douthat archives, but if he wanted an example of a country that made assimilation its organizing national principal, he might want to look into that France place. I hear its coming along swimmingly.
August 22, 2010 at 11:16 am
JPool
So much rumaging.
August 22, 2010 at 6:03 pm
jazzbumpa
I think the idea that most American Muslims are assimilated just fine is a naive oversimplification. Especially when based on 1050 interviews in 4 different languages.
A devout Christian friend of mine once explained to me that religions are by their nature exclusionary. If you limit that statement to monotheistic religions, I think he’s on to something.
Several years ago, when I lived in Dearborn, about a half mile form Fordson High, a resident killed his daughter at her High School graduation party, because she had become too Americanized. Then he walked to the police station and turned himself in.
Christians, Jews and Muslims also worship the same god (more or less), but each thinks the other has it wrong.
I’m not saying assimilation is impossible, but a group that identifies itself in ways that not only mean nothing to their neighbors, but also highlight their otherness, has a longer uphill journey than an optimistic survey might seem to suggest.
I mean, look at Obama. He’s a Muslim, and NOBODY thinks he’s assimilated.
Cheers!
JzB
August 22, 2010 at 6:36 pm
politicalfootball
4 different languages.
Those Muslims, so diabolically “other” that even Islam can’t assimilate them.
August 22, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Charlieford
“a group that identifies itself in ways that not only mean nothing to their neighbors, but also highlight their otherness, has a longer uphill journey than an optimistic survey might seem to suggest.”
A counter-example might be Mormons. A bizarre sect with laughter-inducing origins, originally quite defensive and even going on the offensive on one dark occasion, practicing polygamy, worshipping in a manner and at temples that look as if it all came out of the climax of “Raiders of the Lost Ark,” leaving the United States entirely for the Kingdom of Deseret, they’re now about as assimilated as you can become. Just not in good ways.
August 22, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Matt Lister
Anyone who thinks that Europeans are too “politically correct” to say anything negative about immigrants or racial minorities has never spent any time in Europe, and I don’t just mean the football matches, either.
August 22, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Vance
a group that identifies itself in ways that not only mean nothing to their neighbors, but also highlight their otherness
If that’s the bar to clear, none of us will be spared. When the wind is southerly, you may see that I’m “identifying my group”, but north by northwest you may well find I’m “highlighting my otherness”.
August 23, 2010 at 1:00 am
Dave
“That France place” is only “coming along swimmingly” if you don’t look closely at where the Muslim population actually lives. Many of them would quite like to assimilate, but the white folks don’t seem to want them.
August 23, 2010 at 3:10 am
Walt
Dave, whenever someone fails to get a joke or sarcasm on the Internet, an angel has its wings ripped off. You probably can’t hear the angel’s screams from where you live, but try to be more careful in the future.
August 23, 2010 at 4:49 am
Dave
Hmm, and yet the official policy of the French state and its cultural elite is assimilation – ruthlessly so. So who’s not getting what joke?
August 23, 2010 at 5:08 am
Walt
That would be you, Dave. The fact that France has a policy of assimilation and that it’s not working that great is precisely the content of JPool’s sarcastic comment.
August 23, 2010 at 7:56 am
JPool
Thanks Walt.
I thought about going further and suggesting that if Douthat wanted Muslims to assimilate maybe we should make Islam an official national religion, but that seemed too dry for August, at least round here.
August 23, 2010 at 11:21 am
Charlieford
Btw, this might be of interest:
Keeping the faith
Gregory Rodriguez
Three young Muslim women talk about the fear and prejudice they’ve faced, and how their religion needs to become even more visible in the U.S.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rodriguez-muslim-20100823,0,1993839.column
August 23, 2010 at 12:16 pm
jazzbumpa
Vance –
It’s not a bar to be cleared. I’m just saying xenophobia is alive and well, and not only living in Paris. I’ve been in Baptist churches where it’s formulaic to diss Catholics and Jews. Religious differences really are a set-up for this kind of thinking. We don’t have tribes, as such, in our culture so we identify ourselves in quasi-tribal ways: Ohio St vs Michigan, frex. Or Christian bs Muslim. I just heard some prominent repug beating the Obama-as-other drum on Hartman’s program this afternoon.
I resonates in the part of our brain where the herding instinct resides.
Hey – did you ever write that trombone music?
Cheers!
JzB
August 23, 2010 at 12:37 pm
politicalfootball
Religious differences really are a set-up for this kind of thinking.
So if we had it to do over again, we wouldn’t welcome the Catholics to the USA? Or Jews? I confess I’m struggling to see your point here.
August 23, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Vance
Ah, jb, I read you as essentially blaming the victim. Agreed, the othering is deeply rooted.
And uh, no, the trombone music got derailed somehow. I would love to make it happen, but it will take a minor miracle.
August 23, 2010 at 5:38 pm
jazzbumpa
Politicalfootball and Vance –
Ah, jb, I read you as essentially blaming the victim.
No, no, no. I am blaming the (presumably) already assimilated who look with bias on anyone who aint them. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
What I am pointing out (rather badly, I guess) is that it’s really easy to hang the “other” label on someone who doesn’t look like me. Cf the guy who got assaulted at the anti-mosque rally yesterday, evidently because his hat looked weird.
And, as I recall, the Irish had a bit of an assimilation problem, back in the day, too. Maybe because they were Catholic. And my experiences in the Baptist church hints that it might not be over yet.
So assimilation (like math) is hard. And the differenter you are, the harder it be.
Though, come to think of it, we did have a Catholic president, once . . .
Cheers!
JzB
August 23, 2010 at 5:47 pm
elizabeth_d
Now that school has started again, I have realized I have an excellent opportunity to heal the wounds between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. I am going to make it my mission to chase down all the Muslim kids on my campus and gravely inform them that their beliefs are un-American, so as to apply the social shame necessary to force true assimilation. I don’t see what could go wrong with this plan.
surely one thing to note is that in many cases the laws of the state are not conducive to assimilation
Good point. Also a datapoint for “the main aim of bigotry is not to make the foreigners change but to make them go away”.
He also continually indicates that he thinks of assimilation as the minority culture dropping everything that the dominant culture finds offensive, but historically, assimilation also works just as much by the dominant culture changing.
THIS.
August 23, 2010 at 7:00 pm
TF Smith
“Douthat” sounds pretty damn furrin’ to me…if Grandpere Douthat had REALLY wanted to assimilate, he would have chnaged his name to somethin’ more ‘merican, like Smith…
August 24, 2010 at 9:24 am
Erik Lund
…And, once again we see some Englishman (Episcopalian placeman, no doubt) huddling on the tidal shore and pronouncing on what is, or isn’t “American.”
If Natty Bumppo could only read, you’d get yours, TF.
August 25, 2010 at 6:10 am
TF Smith
Probably so…