One historian proposes a regulatory authority for the discipline:
Its task would be to protect what he designates “proper historians” from incursions by “amateurs” into writing history books, and to restrain literary editors from commissioning “C-list celebs” and the writers of “chick lit” to review such historians’ work.
Of course, the proposing historian is Andrew Roberts, and who’s to say he wouldn’t be the first one fined by such an office….
More seriously, Roberts’s plaint touches, needle-like, upon the historical profession’s characteristic anxiety—can just anyone do what we do? There are more amateur historians taken more seriously than there are, say, amateur physicists. What is the professional historian’s appropriate attitude toward such amiable practitioners?
Me, I say let a thousand flowers bloom. A journalist writes a derivative and not especially insightful book about a topic I know something about: there’s an opportunity for me to write an essay or, at an extreme, a book setting the record straight (as I see it). All historical understanding is iterative, building on slight corrections to the previously written record. So the more there is, the better a picture you have, making a crabwise approach to truth. Even a mediocre book, creating a misperception of the past, at least creates a perception of the past, and one that we can work with. Why, even historical fiction is good by me; I could never understand why historians got so exercised over, say, Gore Vidal’s Lincoln. Teachable moments galore!
Incidentally, this view helps explain what you’re getting when you get hold of a professional historian—someone who’s read an awful lot of books on the subject, and has a good idea of how they push against each other, who knows what corners of the canvas remain sketchy or untouched.
Of course, this is me if you catch me in my more cheerful mode. Other times, I do think there’s a kind of Gresham’s Law operating in historical research, especially on thickly impastoed subjects like, say, Theodore Roosevelt. The profusion of bad, or at least foolish, books makes it impossible for a good book to make any meaningful impact.
And there are also pernicious books, which actively mislead by reinforcing prejudices, thereby making it that much more difficult to bend the arc of accumulated narrative back toward accuracy.
Further, inasmuch as the profession isn’t self-regulating or even -defining in that Kuhnian way, there aren’t a list of agreed-upon problems and methods. Which might, as previously noted, help keep salaries down.
Say, suddenly I’m not so sanguine anymore.
[Link via occasional commenter ac.]

34 comments
July 29, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Russell Belding
As a local historian, I spent massive amounts of time accumulating facts from primary sources to produce a book which, while it could never be commercially or critically successful, might nonetheless be useful for a professional historian laboring in the same field, or just over the fence in the next field. So, while not a “proper” historian, I will defend to the death my right to self-publish.
July 29, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Cameron Blevins
It’s comments such as Andrew Roberts’ that make laypeople resent the perceived closed-off stuffiness of academics. A “regulatory authority” meant to separate “proper historians” from the riff-raff? Seriously? In a digital world of user participation and collective intelligence, a statement such as this is beyond anachronistic. “Proper historians” like Roberts should learn how to better reach the general without sacrificing their academic integrity, instead of trying to restrict competition or criticism.
July 29, 2008 at 12:29 pm
eric
Yeah, I don’t think anyone—even Andrew Roberts—would object to what you do, Russell—that’s real work. What I understand him to object to is the broad-strokes, little-researched work that uhm, some unnamed persons garner a lot of attention and awards for and sometimes make rather a lot of money on.
July 29, 2008 at 12:32 pm
eric
It’s comments such as Andrew Roberts’ that make laypeople resent the perceived closed-off stuffiness of academics.
See, but Cameron, Roberts isn’t an academic, let alone a stuffy one. That’s what’s kind of funny about his proposal.
July 29, 2008 at 12:38 pm
PorJ
Compare your post to this from journalist Jonathan Alter:
Lawrence is on target when he hails Andrei’s [Charney] narrative. It is superb scholarship, thrilling story-telling and another example of why those academics (you know who you are) who like to belittle journalists trying their hand at writing history should chill. I’m not saying this is a problem among TPM readers, but it’s a frequent complaint in the faculty clubs. These folks need to judge the work, not the credentials (or lack of them) of the author. The whole idea that only PhDs can get tenure at even the least prestigious university may be time-honored, but it makes no sense. It’s the work, not the sheepskin, that should count. Even crazier is that if Andrei wanted to go teach history at a public high school, even one desperate for teachers, he would be turned down for lacking a teaching certificate.
A bunch of issues raised here are germane to Eric’s post:
1. Is – or should – research be the *sole* criterion for hiring & tenure, as Alter assumes?
2. What credentials, if any, are acceptable to be declared a competent historian? A Ph.D.? A book contract with a decent publisher (academic or not)? Evidence of effectiveness in communicating history to general – or specialized – audiences?
3. Are Faculty Clubs really filled with historians complaining about journalists writing history? There are plenty of journalists who have produced excellent histories – Godfrey Hodgson’s work, for instance. Its when the Tom Friedman’s of the world declare that globalization is new and the world is flat that historians get a bit riled, for good reason, in my experience…
July 29, 2008 at 12:43 pm
silbey
I largely agree with you, Eric, as long as I’m not looking at the military history bookshelves in Borders etc: Look! It’s the 472nd book on the Normandy Landings/Gettysburg/Pearl Harbor! Wow! Over there, it’s _Exciting Tales of the Waffen-SS_! Golly! It’s a book on how the West and Islam Have Always Been At War! (That was kind of an actual historian, but still…)
Still, you’re right; as perils of the profession go, I don’t think this really compares.
July 29, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Richard
Any regulatory authority meant to separate ‘real’ historians from amateurs would, without a doubt, firmly place Roberts in the amateur category.
July 29, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Richard
“. The whole idea that only PhDs can get tenure at even the least prestigious university may be time-honored, but it makes no sense.”
Yes it does.
A dissertation isn’t meant to contain a ‘masterful narrative’ nor is it required to be full of interesting vignettes or even witty insights. Its supposed to advance the field of knowledge through original research. It also has to have a thesis, which must be supported enough to be successfully defended in order for the Ph.D. to be granted. I don’t know too many works of history by non-academics that would fit this criteria. Its also meant to spark more debate and commentary than ‘that book was a good read.’ Also, academics at Ph.d. granting institutions are meant to train the next generation of academics–and I don’t see how this skill could be imparted without one going through the process themselves.
July 29, 2008 at 12:59 pm
eric
PorJ: I have an idea you tried to get one of us to respond to this Alter post before, and I pointed out then that we don’t have a Faculty Club here, so I don’t know. That’s still true, if still glib.
In my experience, academic historians don’t generally complain about the existence of a marketplace in which non-academics make money by writing history. (Note, again: Andrew Roberts is not an academic! I should have put in the flashing <irony> tags.) Everyone has to put food on their family.
(I *have* heard academic historians complain about academic historians who try to reach out to a popular audience.)
That doesn’t mean, pace Alter, and in part answer to your 1 & 2, PorJ, that non-academic historians who make a living publishing history should necessarily be hireable in departments of history. The argument there is, the value added in acquiring a PhD is not in doing reseach, it’s in passing the comprehensive examinations, which certify you (if problematically, as noted) as competent to discuss history within the bounds of a professional, Kuhnian paradigm—you’re supposed to know all that’s been written to bring the profession down to date on the problems we consider important problems within our understanding of the discipline. Again, there are all kinds of problems with that, but that’s the argument for the value of a PhD—not “research.”
One of my colleagues says that when she evaluates candidates for a job, she wants to see if they “think like a historian.” I think this is what she means: do they have a scholarly competence, are they meaningfully immersed within the stream of discussion under way in the profession?
For a third time, I recognize there are problems with this position, and we could talk about them: but it’s not meaningful to have the discussion on the basis Alter’s proposing, as if what were of value was, “did you conduct some research.”
July 29, 2008 at 1:10 pm
eric
Its when the Tom Friedman’s of the world declare that globalization is new and the world is flat that historians get a bit riled, for good reason, in my experience…
Also, really?
July 29, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Vance Maverick
Also, really?
As in, “Is that really the only use of ‘flat’ in my book?”, or in “Did I really call blackboards ‘manageable'”?
I was thinking that academic historians do already communicate in at least one popularly accessible yet intellectually rigorous mode — teaching — and wondering how quality is controlled there. Eric’s account of hiring goes some way to answer this, but it’s not obvious how the lesson might be extended to books.
July 29, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Adam Roberts
I’m not in Andrew Roberts’s public-exposure league or anywhere near, but I’ve published a bit (criticism, novels) and you would be surprised how often I’ve been approached, by newspapers, TV companies etc. mistaking me for him for comments or more extensive things on a variety on topics. A less scrupulous individual would take advantage of this state of affairs to chatter on like Father Dougal about the spider baby (‘it has the body of a spider, but the mind of a baby…’) posing as Andrew Roberts all the while. This drumhead court would be one way of preventing such deceit, I suppose.
July 29, 2008 at 1:29 pm
eric
As in, “Is that really the only use of ‘flat’ in my book?”, or in “Did I really call blackboards ‘manageable’”?
As in … you know what “as in,” don’t you. But don’t get me started: blackboards are awesome, and all these newfangled whiteboards are merely racist, modernist, aestheticist abominations that Must Be Stopped! Bring back the blackboards!
July 29, 2008 at 1:30 pm
eric
A less scrupulous individual
So Adam, could you tell us a bit about why Winston Churchill would have supported President Bush’s Iraq strategy?
July 29, 2008 at 1:54 pm
politicalfootball
Regarding Alter, I’d submit that a journalist who issues a superficial critique of bloggers as non-journalists isn’t really the right person to be saying “those academics (you know who you are) who like to belittle journalists trying their hand at writing history should chill.”
July 29, 2008 at 3:19 pm
grackle
I particularly like the place in his c.v where Andrew Roberts describes Conrad Black as a distinguished historian. Set the goal posts high!
As to the importance of degrees, I think Peter Brown has a B.A. from Oxford but hasn’t been too hindered by his lack of professional training. He is not alone but it is increasingly rare to be able to partake of academia without the bells and whistles. The great emphasis on PhD.’s these days is undoubtedly related to the imbalance between degree holders and jobs.
July 29, 2008 at 3:21 pm
SomeCallMeTim
chatter on like Father Dougal about the spider baby (’it has the body of a spider, but the mind of a baby…’) posing as Andrew Roberts all the while
Gawd, that would be awesome. And I don’t even have a dog in the fight.
July 29, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Jeremy Young
I agree with your take on this, Eric, but I’d go further — if we’re not good enough writers to compete with the “amateurs” and win, then it’s we who have no business being historians, not they.
Thankfully, none of the principals on this blog have that problem.
July 29, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Jeremy Young
Separate self-promotion comment: I also have a post on this topic here.
July 29, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Sandie
Eugen Weber is another historian who never got his Ph.D.
July 29, 2008 at 4:45 pm
ac
Right, I remember Roberts’ gaffe on internment. But even if he’s babbling incoherently about the nonexistent Irish civil war in the 1930s, that’s at least slightly less embarrassing than claiming that internment policy of the 1970s was successful. Zoiks.
July 29, 2008 at 5:03 pm
eric
Eugen Weber is another historian who never got his Ph.D.
Yes, but I don’t think there’s any argument that it was once different. It’s also true that at one time PhD dissertations consisted of article-length pamphlets, right?
July 29, 2008 at 6:01 pm
PorJ
For the record, I don’t endorse (in fact, I disagree with both) Alter’s and Roberts’ positions. I’m interested in how these two-non historians discuss perceptions of academic history, and how it might be reflective of a larger (elite?) public perception.
Yes, I posted the Alter thing before to poke Eric with a stick. If that makes me a troll, my apologies (but I like it here under this bridge). I’m also curious what Eric & Ari, two well-respected, scholarly and widely-read historians make of the same issue: how are academic historians perceived by the public, and what do these scholars actually do that might influence or shape such (mis)perceptions? Eric, at least, can’t say he isn’t completely uninterested in the question because he regularly publishes in TNR (obviously hoping for a larger audience than a scholarly journal).
Perhaps the perception is because “thinking like a historian” means challenging/revising popular memory as often as possible? Doing so certainly creates an aura of professional authority (as I remember, this was a major point of Ari’s using Jerry Lembcke’s work in class – to make students uncertain and, hopefully, more critical about the world around them. The problem is Lembcke’s work is a pretty rotten example for the exercise). Does “thinking like a historian” mean concluding that the question of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan is settled? I ask because one of my all-time favorite works looking into the issue of historians vs. everyone else is Paul Fussell’s “Thank God For the Atom Bomb.” One last example: I had lunch with a very well-respected veteran journalist about a month ago. He was reading Halberstam’s book on the Korean War. I told him that in academia, in my experience, a simple narrative like that would be dismissed quickly as derivative shlock. I told him about Bruce Cumming’s magesterial two-volume The Origins of the Korean War, which I suffered through for comprehensives. Cummings concludes (I’ll save you all 1,000 pages here) that South Korean raiding parties, with American aid, had actually attacked North Korea regularly for several months before the North launched its invasion “in retaliation.” My friend couldn’t believe it; he lived through the Korean War and he said – that’s so beyond reality its in bizarro world. Yes, Acheson made the biggest goof of the early Cold War by not putting Korea on the list of countries the US would defend (which N.K. and Stalin took as a green light), but the idea that South Koreans and Americans were attacking and killing North Koreans – who then invaded in self-defense – is so moronic its unreal.
O.K., enough. BTW, I’m a former journalist who passed comprehensives with distinction on the way to a PhD in history. Both professions suffer from the same malady: the need to perform authoritatively in occupations stuck between craft and profession. Its precisely this ambiguity that creates tension and anxiety – and overcompensation…
July 29, 2008 at 6:14 pm
eric
PorJ, it would be vastly less troll-like if you’d address me directly, instead of talking about me, as it were, to the aether.
You say:
First of all, who said we’re well-respected or widely read? Nice of you, though. What do we do that might influence of shape such perceptions? Well, we started this here blog, you know, which is obviously aimed at a larger-than-scholarly audience. (What proportion of our readership is non- or scholarly would be interesting to know.)
That indicates we’re trying to do something about a perceived situation. You can tell a bit about it if you look way, way back at the first week of posts, when it was just Ari and me talking to each other about what we’re doing and why; one of us said (I’m not looking, on purpose, for fear of what I might find) that we wanted to use this medium to create the academic discourse we’d like to be having.
Add that to writing for TNR, TLS, Slate, TAP, etc. (I think Ari wrote for Better Homes & Gardens at one point), plus writing books for a trade publisher, plus being willing to make fools of ourselves by doing TV (which makes you look like a fool no matter how well it turns out, and that one turned out pretty well) well, I guess you can see what we think, can’t you? You can’t say we’re not putting our money where our mouths are—and literally, our money: time and effort put into non-scholarly writing really don’t pay, in terms of the ordinary currency of academic advancement.
You further say:
No, as I thought I indicate in my comment above, “thinking like a historian” means being familiar with the existing literature, the paradigm it created, the problems it leaves unsolved, the methods that might be used to solve those problems, the anomalies thereby left…. if you don’t like my using the Kuhnian terms of art here, I’m sorry, but they’re afaik the only real vocabulary for describing how a community of inquiry works.
And yes, PorJ, I’ve noticed that you like Paul Fussell. You’ve brought him up a number of times. Here‘s what I wrote about the atomic bomb five years ago. (Ignore the erroneous title, it’s a piece by me, as Eric A’s introduction indicates.) I’m not going to read it again, but I should hope it will satisfy you.
I should absolutely hope that this blog provides ample evidence that neither Ari nor I nor Noon nor Kaufman nor Merrill is interested in “perfom[ing] authoritatively.” Have you noticed the tone of voice around here?
July 29, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Michael Elliott
I’m sorry to be getting into this one so late. I spent a number of years going to conferences of amateur historians, and reading their writing, for my research on Custer. I’m not a historian, but I’m a Ph.d. academic (with some modest historical pretensions), and so I thought a lot about the relationship of these amateur historians and more credentialed folk. Of course, this was all on the subject of the Indian Wars, so it was a very particular historical niche. I don’t know how generalizable my experience is. One thing I came away with, though, was that in fact there was less hostility between amateur and academic historians that I had guessed. The amateurs will take their information where they can get it; they aren’t worried about credentials, but they appreciate the range of expertise that they bring to the table when they write about the topic that interests them. On the other hand, the amateurs are asking very different questions than most academic historians, and so there’s also a lot of indifference between the two groups.
I also think that history is unique as a discipline (at least compared to my “home” in lit. studies) in ways that historians might not appreciate. First, there is an intermediate category of the professional, non-academic historian: The museum professional or National Park Service historian. My impression is that academic historians respect these folks a lot, as do many amateur historians. (Lit. scholars, on the other hand, don’t have a lot of respect for, say, the non-academic critics who write in TNR or the like.) Moreover, when I’ve been at the Western History Association, I’ve seen a lot of interaction between academic and non-academic historians.
Of course, the grass is always greener, but from where I sit, the relationship between academics and non-academics in history looks relatively healthy.
July 29, 2008 at 9:27 pm
ari
For the record, I wrote (Alas, there’s no link available.) for House and Garden, which has since closed up shop. My fault? Probably. Regardless, it was a much higher brow periodical than Better Homes and Gardens. But not nearly so high brow as Architectural Digest. If you see what I’m saying. And anyway, I’m not sure I have publications from which I derive more pride than my work for H and G.
July 29, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Vance Maverick
Speaking of publications that have closed up shop, Ari, did I see something flicker briefly in my RSS feed?
July 29, 2008 at 10:06 pm
ari
Yes, but I didn’t want to step on SEK’s really fascinating post (about which I seem unable to muster even the tiniest fragment of a comment). And so: my post will appear just before midnight pst, to be enjoyed (or not, more likely) on the morrow by most readers.
July 30, 2008 at 6:33 am
PorJ
Eric,
I didn’t address you directly because down here in the comment threads I really dig the contributions of Vance Maverick, Ben Alpers (is he on vacation?), and all the other excellent commentators. I’m always curious about what others have to say – I prefer a forum to a series of dialogues.
My point about the performance of authority is illustrated throughout this thread (and blog). Two examples: 1. The excellent (concise) defense of the dissertation by Richard at 12:57, and 2. The issues you have (as evidenced in the repetition of how “problematic” the argument is) in this paragraph:
The value added in acquiring a PhD is not in doing reseach, it’s in passing the comprehensive examinations, which certify you (if problematically, as noted) as competent to discuss history within the bounds of a professional, Kuhnian paradigm—you’re supposed to know all that’s been written to bring the profession down to date on the problems we consider important problems within our understanding of the discipline. Again, there are all kinds of problems with that, but that’s the argument for the value of a PhD—not “research.”
At different times you (implicitly) endorse this type of certification and express doubts about (or “problems with”) it. That’s what I mean by the performance of authority. I’m fine with ambiguity (I share it), but its the ambiguity that allows space for Roberts and Alters and others to make their case about us (academic historians). I prefer Richard’s certainty, but I just don’t share it, because I’m not as certain about how authoritative any history can be, and what role the specific training of any historian can play in bolstering that authority.
I like your Atom Bomb piece, but I think Alperovitz, Sherry, et. al. carry more weight on the question than you gave them credit for – at least they did a decade or two ago (just my guess, I could be wrong, and I might be confused by a subfield – I’m not in SHAFR, but one of my examiners was a Foreign Relations specialist and I got the impression in that field it was pretty much case closed).
July 30, 2008 at 6:56 am
eric
PorJ, If I’ve been ambiguous it’s my fault. I do think the method of educating and qualifying PhDs is appropriate. I don’t think it’s without flaw. So I guess you could say I’m ambivalent. But there’s no authoritative posture there; people often say “I don’t think McCain is really conservative but I’m voting for him.”
As for mode of address: you’re standing in a group with A, B, C. A says “x, PorJ”. Which is more polite, to say, “A says x, but I disagree,” or “you may say x, A, but I wonder if B, or C, agrees?”
On the bomb, LaFeber and Gaddis are hardly obscure or marginal, they’re major syntheses. And Bernstein is frequently invoked as “left” or “radical”.
July 30, 2008 at 7:46 am
Richard
PorJ wrote:
“I told him about Bruce Cumming’s magesterial two-volume The Origins of the Korean War, which I suffered through for comprehensives. Cummings concludes (I’ll save you all 1,000 pages here) that South Korean raiding parties, with American aid, had actually attacked North Korea regularly for several months before the North launched its invasion “in retaliation.” …idea that South Koreans and Americans were attacking and killing North Koreans – who then invaded in self-defense – is so moronic its unreal.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought only Cummings’ second volume came to that conclusion. Moreover, wasn’t Cummings’ second volume immediately discredited when the Soviet archives were opened? Its not like Cummings was arguing out of thin air–new evidence emerged which contradicted his thesis.
July 30, 2008 at 8:33 am
Student
. The observation that having a Ph.D. shows that one has passed a test that (more or less) qualifies one to think and write (and teach) about the historical work of others within the paradigms of the profession is a very good one. I agree it’s not simply doing good research that makes a Ph.D. But it’s also true that what makes historians different from, say political scientists, is that they’re trained to go to the primary sources because doing so is important for better historical thinking about a given subject. That’s why people with Ph.Ds get slightly exercised over books like Rick Perlstein’s and others which not only ignore important and relevant 2ndary literature, but don’t bother to look at the documents. I mean what harm would it be to spend some time in Washington looking at Nixon’s papers? But in the end, it is worse when historical journalists and others interested in writing about history don’t bother to get engaged in the 2ndary literature. If someone is going to take the trouble to write about the history of any period, whether they have a Ph.D. or not, they should consider the possibility that some academic historians have something valid to say about their topic. And maybe they won’t have to read so many newspaper articles to reach a better understanding of their topic. Of course, this isn’t going to happen!
On Bruce Cummings: He’s a smart historian but he went out on a limb when he denied, in volume 2, that the Soviets had anything important to do with the June 1950 invasion and he’s still hanging on it (so far as I know). His books have their value nonetheless.
July 30, 2008 at 8:52 am
Richard
“That’s why people with Ph.Ds get slightly exercised over books like Rick Perlstein’s and others which not only ignore important and relevant 2ndary literature, but don’t bother to look at the documents.”
They really shouldn’t. For one, Perlstein’s book was great–it married cultural, political, and social history into one narrative. Secondly, Perlstein DID do some primary research. I forget exactly whose papers he was looking at, but I do recall that Perlstein found some things from primary sources. Not to mention that all of Perlstein’s descriptions of the Presidential debates were derived from primary sources. Moreover, Perlstein incorporated a lot of material from academic sources–his entire discussion of Frank Rizzo came from a Master’s Thesis at Columbia.
Perlstein’s book was 800 pages. It would have been damn near impossible, and a huge waste of time, for Nixonland, or any lengthy book, to be a narrative relying heavily on primary sources.
July 30, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Student
Richard, I take your point about Nixonland. I like the book, but sometimes his judgments and facts are a little off because he didn’t bother to explore some of the historical literature. I’m sure, however, that some of the readers of this blog will shake their heads when they read that it’s a “huge waste of time for … any lengthy book” to rely “heavily” on primary sources. This is what historians often do and sometimes with tremendous results. For example, if Fritz Fischer had not done all that primary source research to write his big book on “Germany’s Aims in the First World War” historical knowledge of the origins of the war would have suffered, even if he Fischer wasn’t right about everything.