You’re making me take seriously a post I put up in jest. That said, here’s the thing: it seems that wars occupy tiers of significance in American memory. I should note that everything from this point forward is speculation of the idlest variety. I should also reiterate that I’m talking about, to borrow Kieran’s phrase from the previous post, a specific kind of “metric”: memory. Which is to say, I’m mostly not going to talk about which American wars actually were historically significant, though that’s probably an interesting and blogworthy discussion in its own right. Or maybe I’ll mix and match. Because this post is going to be like jazz: improvisational.
Anyway, without further ado…
The first tier would include the wars that comprise our national creation myths: the Revolution and the Civil War. With the Revolution, the founding generation bought the nation’s independence with blood. And then the Founders themselves screwed everything up by including the notorious 3/5 Compromise in the Constitution. Which meant that there had to be a “new birth of freedom” during the Civil War — purchased, once again, with blood. I think WWII is also in the first tier, because, in the popular imagination at least, the “Good War” ratified the American project (underscoring the most pernicious notions about this nation’s exceptionalism).
The second tier, by my way of thinking at least, is complicated and more controversial. It currently includes just one “war”: Vietnam. But I suspect that, as time passes, the current Iraq War will sidle up next to the conflict in Vietnam. Why? Because these will be the wars that historians and the public alike will mark as having ended the era of American hegemony: by depleting the treasury, by sullying our international reputation, by distracting the electorate from other, very real, problems. From which point I could pivot to a discussion about how Osama bin Laden surely has accomplished almost everything he hoped to with the September 11 attacks. In such a discussion, George W. Bush becomes bin Laden’s most able henchman, a dupe of world-historical proportions. But Kathy, my colleague, tells me that would be controversial and would detract from my other points.
So, moving on…
In the third tier, there’s the conflict in Korea and World War I. Korea sometimes gets called America’s forgotten war, so perhaps it shouldn’t rate this high. M.A.S.H., though, has to be credited with making people aware that there even was a Korean War — even though the movie actually satirized Vietnam. As for WWI, I’m not sure that most Americans could tell you a thing about it. And that’s too bad. Because WWI is hugely important. If you want to know why, ask Eric. He’ll be happy to explain its significance. I’m just here to make you ingrates laugh. Throw some shekels into my cup on your way out of the club, won’t you?
Next, there are the imperial adventures: the Mexican-American War and the Spanish-American-Cuban-Philippine War. Silbey will tell you that the latter is incredibly significant and should occupy a spot far higher than the fourth tier of memory. And if I ever get around to reading his book, I’m sure that I’ll learn he’s right about that. The former, though, is definitely underrated. The acquisition of territory alone, which led directly to the Civil War, makes the Mexican-American War much more important than most people (I’m looking at you, Spike) realize. And then there’s the issue of race: the tens of thousands of conquered non-white people and the racial anxiety they spurred among Anglo-Americans in the conflict’s aftermath is a worthy subject in its own right. I used to have a (stupid) theory that the United States fought what amounted to one long race war starting in Mexico and concluding in the Philippines. But that’s a (stupid) story for another day.
After that, we arrive at the fifth tier: 1812, Iraq the first, the Kosovo bombing, the current fight in Afghanistan. And yes, I know 1812 was important: diplomatically, for securing the nation’s independence; economically, for helping to win relatively open markets for some U.S. goods; politically, for killing the Federalist Party in the wake of the ill-timed Hartford Convention; militarily, for giving us Andrew Jackson, he of the epic victory secured after war’s end; and trivially, for providing Canadian fifth columnists (myself included) something to brag about. But my knowing something says very little about popular perceptions. That’s another thing I know. As for the first Iraq War, Kosovo, and Afghanistan, it seems these wars, though they’re all of recent vintage, receive relatively little popular attention.
Finally, there’s the sixth tier (Eric suggests calling these “The Gilbert and Sullivan Wars.”): the invention of Panama, the ouster of Noriega, and Granada (Operation Whatever the Fuck it was Called). Need I say more about this lot? I think not.
Left out of the mix entirely: a bushel of filibusters, a peck of Central American dabbling, sundry bombardments, various overthrows, and all manner of embedded coups. Also: the so-called Indian Wars, which most people don’t even seem to think of as wars. But I’ll correct that misconception with the book I’ll write after the next one. Which I’ll write after I finish this one. Speaking of which, back to work
And let us never forget: the Fenian invasion of Canada.
84 comments
June 19, 2008 at 8:17 pm
The Modesto Kid
Where does the Cold War fit?
June 19, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Jason B
“From which point I could pivot to a discussion about how Osama bin Laden surely has accomplished almost everything he hoped to with the September 11 attacks.”
This is something my wife and I snarl back and forth about* frequently. I haven’t thought about it too much, though, because I don’t want my head to explode.
*I don’t mean we snarl at each other. I mean we take turns snarling at the magic box what brings us pictures. I’m better at snarling.
Snarl.
June 19, 2008 at 8:23 pm
The Modesto Kid
the so-called Indian Wars, which most people don’t even seem to think of as wars
Kind of funny: as I looked over this line, I had the thought “Hey! What war was going on when Custer’s Last Stand occurred?” … Oh yeah, that must have been an Indian War. That event certainly looms large in the popular imagination. But yeah, without being part of a “war”. More of a police action I guess you could say.
June 19, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Kieran
Also, let us never forget: the Fenian invasion of Canada.
My brother got married in Kingston, ON, and a large contingent of my family flew over from the ole Green ‘n’ Lovely and descended upon our hospitable Canadian in-laws-to-be. The fact that Canada was perhaps the only country that Ireland might even tendentiously be said to have invaded gave me the material for my opening few jokes during my Best Man speech.
June 19, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Vance Maverick
The first tier would include the wars that comprise our national creation myths
To include the Second World War, all one would have to do is strike the word “creation”. It really is part of the national myth — perhaps the myth of our maturity among nations.
And the invasion of Grenada (which persuaded me, then aged 17 years 11 months, that I should not register for the draft), was called, so help me Cthulhu, Operation Urgent Fury, as if it were a discomposure of the bowels.
June 19, 2008 at 8:43 pm
ari
I put that in there just for you, Kieran. And Vance, I couldn’t bring myself to use the googles. I knew I was letting you down. Sorry. I’ll repent somehow; I promise I will.
June 19, 2008 at 8:43 pm
urbino
To include the Second World War, all one would have to do is strike the word “creation”. It really is part of the national myth — perhaps the myth of our maturity among nations.
A national coming-of-age myth.
June 19, 2008 at 8:45 pm
ari
Yeah, Urbino, that was what I meant. But you said it better. Thunder stealer.
June 19, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Vance Maverick
My linking that stuff is a tic, not intended as a substitute for actual research.
June 19, 2008 at 8:51 pm
urbino
That’s just how I roll, a-dog.
June 19, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Kieran
The Gilbert and Sullivan Wars
I’m sorry, I’ll get my coat.
June 19, 2008 at 9:10 pm
urbino
I have a feeling this is going to be one of those moments in my life about which someday I’ll brag that I was there.
June 19, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Kári Tulinius
Only a first rate war could lead to the composition of a song as funny as Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie’s War of 1812 (there’s also a live video).
June 19, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Vance Maverick
Also linked by Cala, fwiw.
June 19, 2008 at 9:43 pm
ari
I was going to say that, Vance, but I think Kåri is new here. I try not to scare off the new people by telling them they’ve been pwned. Instead, I go with a simple: welcome Kåri, and I’m sorry I got your accent wrong. I’m still learning my way around this new computer. And please ignore Vance; we’ll have him trained before too long.
June 19, 2008 at 9:45 pm
andrew
Still wrong.
June 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Spike
I never contended that the Mexican War was less important than the War of 1812, just more boring. We basically just went down there and kicked Mexico’s ass. There was no suspense – it wasn’t even a fair fight.
1812 had way more drama….
June 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Vance Maverick
Quite right, Ari. And I should note that Kári added an extra link FTW.
June 19, 2008 at 9:47 pm
ari
Okay, critic, what’s wrong this time?
June 19, 2008 at 9:48 pm
ari
Sorry, my comment crossed with Spike’s petulant little outburst and Vance’s sensible acknowledgment of my rightness. My comment above was a response to andrew, of course.
(Also, Spike, you know I’m kidding, right?)
June 19, 2008 at 9:50 pm
andrew
1. You bring memory into it, and M.A.S.H, but not the “Star Spangled Banner.”
2. These books, for example, are periodized the way they are for a good reason. Not all of the wars known as Indian wars can be separated from the War of 1812.
June 19, 2008 at 9:59 pm
ari
1) You think that most Americans know when and about what the Star Spangled Banner was written?
2) And then you show me books that have sold, well, let’s be generous, in the case of Middle Ground, 8,000-12,000 copies, and in the case of A New Order of Things, 1,000-2,000 copies. In other words, yes, I totally agree with you about the link between those Indian Wars and 1812 (not to mention later Indian Wars and the Civil War — I am Marshall McLuhan, and you know nothing of my work). But we’re talking about memory here. So my sense of the past, working as a professional historian, or Richard White’s or Claudio Saunt’s, isn’t really at issue. That said, I should have noted in the post that 1812 mattered a great deal for Native-white relations. I blew that one. And if that’s what you meant, please ignore all of the above.
June 19, 2008 at 9:59 pm
PGD
I once tried to put a line about Bush being Bin Laden’s unwitting ally in a speech, and it was stricken with extreme prejudice. Such an obvious observation, but there is much resistance to it.
It’s hard to put Gulf War I in a low tier and Gulf War II in a high tier, since one did so much to cause the other. Future historians will see them as one extended conflict.
Totally dead on about the Mexican War being underrated. It’s the great war of manifest destiny. I think people sometimes think we would have grabbed all that territory anyway through sheer force of population and expansion, so the actual war that finally did it is relatively unimportant. Certainly it’s easy to see unofficial settler militias eventually grabbing California and Texas from Mexico even without Federal intervention.
Very funny song, but you’ll notice the Canadians had to rip off American Johnny Horton to complete their little ditty.
June 19, 2008 at 10:02 pm
PGD
The Star Spangled Banner — great point! Now that is interesting. It raises the question of what one means by memory. I would argue that every time an American crowd sings the Star Spangled Banner they are in a certain sense “remembering” the War of 1812. After all, their heads are filled with an eyewitness description of a battle in that war.
June 19, 2008 at 10:03 pm
andrew
And if that’s what you meant, please ignore all of the above.
That’s what I meant in comments to the first post. Obviously you’re right about the memory aspect in this post. Except I think you underestimate how many Americans know about the Start Spangled Banner for trivia reasons, and overestimate the number of Americans who care or will care about M.A.S.H.
June 19, 2008 at 10:16 pm
ari
I totally misread you in the first post. I thought you were objecting to my calling Senator McCain an 1812 vet. Shows what I know.
As for the song and show, I don’t actually have any idea. But here’s my guess: of the former, most Americans haven’t a clue that it was written and they’re singing about Ft. McHenry; the latter, by contrast, was the top-rated show for years and culminated in the most-watched episode of television ever. I don’t know what any of that means, of course. Such is the way with memory studies. I should also say that I’m happy to admit, as I have in the post, that Korea is very likely too high in the pecking order.
June 19, 2008 at 10:20 pm
andrew
When I was a kid, I had no idea what M.A.S.H was about – and only as an adult learned it was about Korea, and still haven’t watched it and, you know, probably never will – but I knew about Ft. McHenry because I was told about it when I learned the anthem in school.
June 19, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Jason B
Senator McCain wasn’t an 1812 vet, but his false teeth were constructed from the keel of a Canadian aircraft carrier from that attempt to root al-Quaeda out of Quebec.
You see how “Qu” appears in both? I bet you can find the “qu” combination in all kinds of Viet-Nam-erish names.
I can see what’s comin’.
June 19, 2008 at 10:24 pm
ari
So we’re working from similar anecdatal sets, then? (I grew up watching M.A.S.H. — it was the only show my parents allowed me to watch on tv — and had no idea that the SSB was about anything other than absurdly high notes.)
June 19, 2008 at 10:25 pm
andrew
(And I probably should have been clearer in the comments to the first post re: Indian Wars. On the other hand, I’m surprised it didn’t come up in anyone else’s comments. Probably shows how my perceptions have been skewed by the structure of my first grad reading seminar course (colonial US with an Atlantic World perspective).)
June 19, 2008 at 10:26 pm
andrew
Next anecdote settles it.
June 19, 2008 at 10:28 pm
urbino
the latter, by contrast, was the top-rated show for years and culminated in the most-watched episode of television ever
And all its many seasons remain in circulation on cable, lo, these many years later.
June 19, 2008 at 10:28 pm
ari
Argh! Cross-post again! Mine was to andrew’s of 10:20. Which isn’t to say that Jason isn’t completely right.
June 19, 2008 at 10:29 pm
ari
And Urbino, too. (Stupid blog.)
June 19, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Jason B
I’m using that in my next interview. I’ll say that Ari Kelman once said that it wasn’t true that I wasn’t completely right.
They’ll be so confused they won’t be able to resist giving me the job.
June 19, 2008 at 10:36 pm
ari
Jason, is Juneteenth good? And what are you doing in Norman, if you don’t mind my asking?
June 19, 2008 at 10:37 pm
ari
Oops, you’re a writer and a teacher. I’m having a hard time with this whole reading thing. Give me time; I’ll catch up.
June 19, 2008 at 10:38 pm
urbino
I grew up watching M.A.S.H. — it was the only show my parents allowed me to watch on tv
I suspect this goes far toward explaining our being the same person, ari.
June 19, 2008 at 10:39 pm
ari
I think there may be many people who are us, urbino. At least in that respect.
June 19, 2008 at 10:42 pm
urbino
Which clearly means you’re right about the Korean War, and andrew is wrong.
June 19, 2008 at 10:44 pm
andrew
As John McCain points out, the Korean War isn’t over. So it’s too soon to tell. The War of 1812 had a 140 year head start in the memory race and M.A.S.H. will fade. Unless it gets into a new anthem.
June 19, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Jason B
I don’t mind you asking at all, so ask away.
So far, Juneteenth is very good. It has all of Ellison’s genius with language and has the ability to provide alush world for the reader’s mind.
But–and with this work there are a lot of “buts”–I’m only forty pages in, and who knows what that meant in regard to what he intended for this story. We’ll only ever be able to guess as to his intentions for the final draft, even though he’d worked on it for forty-five years.
But I love his language (so jazz-infused it borders on nonsense sometimes, but maybe more valuable for that) and I’ll knock it out pretty quickly.
As for why I’m in Norman:
My wife and I collect degrees, and we trade. I got my MFA, so she’s now working on her PhD in Physics (concentration in Astrophysics, with stuff like “gravitational lensing” and “globular clusters” frequenting her discourse (as far as I can tell (I love nested parentheses))). She’s at OU and we’ve been happy this year.
So that’s that. Back to me being a pointless smartass!
June 19, 2008 at 10:47 pm
ari
Given my massive misreading of andrew’s comment on the earlier thread, I don’t think I’m in any position to say that he’s wrong. But you are. So yes, he’s wrong. We all agree.
Seriously, though, I’ve been googling to see if anyone has data on what Americans think they’re singing about when they rise for the SSB. And all I’ve got is that everyone thinks it’s a very hard song to sing and should be replaced with…something else. My vote for “Straight to Hell” isn’t convincing anybody, I’m afraid.
June 19, 2008 at 10:49 pm
ari
We lived in Norman for two years. We made many very good friends there. Also: it was often very hot, even at 2 am. That was hard on the dogs. So we moved.
June 19, 2008 at 10:50 pm
ari
10:47 to urbino. 10:49 to Jason.
June 19, 2008 at 10:51 pm
grackle
One so wantsto contribute somethingto this discussion,but there have beenso many wars, it’s hard to tell exactly where or even if there have been any breaks in the action, such that one can put the cherry on the whipped cream of the delight that was the second world war. Given that, you’ve gotten it about right, from a recentish sort of perspective. But then, all the WWI vets have died pretty much, and no one remembers what paper poppies are any more.
June 19, 2008 at 10:53 pm
d
Until America wages a 335-year war, we have nothing to brag about.
June 19, 2008 at 10:54 pm
urbino
what Americans think they’re singing about when they rise for the SSB
Mostly, it’s about Obama’s lapel pin and funny name, though there is a mention of glorious torture in the 3rd stanza.
June 19, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Jason B
Hey, did you know his middle name is “Adolf?”
I mean . . . “Hussein?”
Can you believe he allowed his parents to choose that middle name for him?
I mean, Jeez.
I agreed with all of Hillary’s policies, but I think I’ll vote for McCain. Because he has experience. Or maybe Ronald Reagan. He has more experience. Or maybe FDR, because he has a ton of experience.
Or Edvard Benes. Damn. He ran Czechoslovakia in exile for like forty years.
(Sorry. I’m an American Benesh. I don’t know anything about cousin Ed’s leadership other than what I’ve gleaned from Kundera novels, but I throw it around like Dubya does his military service.)
June 19, 2008 at 11:08 pm
eyeingtenure
Barbary Wars! What’s wrong with you guys? You can’t just leave out when George Washington paddled across the Atlantic to bust up some freakin’ pirates, succeeding only because he stuck his opponent’s wife’s hand in a vat of acid at a party.
At least, that’s what the Professor Brothers told me.
June 19, 2008 at 11:18 pm
ari
I swear on the stack of bibles that I keep handy at all times — for the purposes of spontaneous oaths — that Gordon Wood taught me everything in that video during a lecture he gave on Washington in his American Revolution course. I kid you not. In fact, if Wood is to be believed, that video sells Washington’s thighs short. And are you going to tell Gordon Wood that he’s wrong? Well, are you?
June 19, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Jason B
I can tell you that Ari keeps one hand on his chest at all times, and that he only switches when he tires–which is almost never, because he’s STRONG.
I’m only not linking to that Slate article because I’m phenomenally lazy–like, it would have been much easier to link to that article than to type all this, but I’m an ass, and I’ll just do this instead. Plus, I like to do this.
June 20, 2008 at 4:17 am
CharleyCarp
Whiskey Rebellion. French & Indian War. War of Jenkins Ear. That bold stand that doesn’t even have a name, but immortalized by Charlton Heston in 55 Days At Peking. All dwarfed by King Philip’s War (which probably has a nice PC name nowadays). Even if Johnny Horton didn’t write a song about it.
I’m going to go re-read Robert Penn Warren’s epic poem on the Nez Perce War.
June 20, 2008 at 4:55 am
CharleyCarp
Pershing chasing Villa. There was a recent book about that in which we learn what a suck-up Patton was.
June 20, 2008 at 5:23 am
John Emerson
Pig War. “Essentially bloodless” say the speciesists, forgetting the poor pig
murdered by the Canadiansused by the Canadians to harass innocent Americans.June 20, 2008 at 5:24 am
silbey
Rising to the defense of the Philippine-American War (1. “Defending” a war? Oy. 2. Given that Ari admits he hasn’t read my book, I should probably maintain a dignified but hurt silence):
The problem with lists that attempt to put everything together in a single list is that you end up comparing wholly different things: not just apples and oranges, but space shuttles and arias.
If you look at it in the context of America’s imperial venture, the Philippine-American War becomes one of the most important: the first time, in a sustained way, that the United States extends its vision beyond the hemisphere. The West, Cuba, and so on, were perceived–rightly or wrongly–as part of the domestic sphere. The Philippines was Empire, with a capital “E”.
We basically just went down there and kicked Mexico’s ass. There was no suspense – it wasn’t even a fair fight.
Ex post facto. The U.S. wasn’t the UNITED STATES when the war broke out: it was a small, not necessarily impressive continental power. That fact that we handled the Mexicans as easily as we did is actually deeply interesting.
(Just like the fact that we handled the Iraqis as easily as we did in 1991 is interesting).
June 20, 2008 at 5:27 am
John Emerson
At my URL is my own piece about the shores of Tripoli, Herman Melville’s cousin, the Ruben James, and an American suicide bomber attacking Muslims.
June 20, 2008 at 5:28 am
John Emerson
And the American tradition of secular government.
June 20, 2008 at 6:05 am
[links] Link salad, Friday Friday | jlake.com
[…] The Edge of the American West ranks our nation’s wars by perceived historical significance — Interesting and irreverent. […]
June 20, 2008 at 6:17 am
CharleyCarp
I went to elementary school in Texas, so I understand the proper historical significance of events in the past All that preceded the Alamo: mere foreshadowing. All that followed (except San Jacinto!): But pale reflection.
June 20, 2008 at 6:18 am
ari
I own your book, Silbey; I just haven’t read it yet. Trust me, it’s in good company. And I promise to read it first thing this summer — just as soon as I finish this chapter I’m writing.
June 20, 2008 at 6:20 am
fuyura
But… but… I see no mention of the Toledo War between Ohio and Michigan.
June 20, 2008 at 6:26 am
ari
fuyura, I think that’s in the other thread. Also, if I haven’t said it before: welcome to the site. And I have said it before, welcome again. As for you Charley, I had no idea that you grew up in Texas. Or that you were revealing to admit as much (sorry, my days in Oklahoma instilled a fierce resentment of the Lonestar State).
June 20, 2008 at 6:36 am
Spike
Also, the Oyster Wars between Maryland and Virgina. Surely of equal significance to World War I?
June 20, 2008 at 6:37 am
ari
Now you’re talking, Spike.
June 20, 2008 at 6:42 am
CharleyCarp
Ari: RTFA.
June 20, 2008 at 6:42 am
CharleyCarp
You are a historian, right? Isn’t that what you people do?
June 20, 2008 at 6:51 am
ari
I’ve said before, CC: I read the archives in a work capacity; when I’m playing, not so much. Plus, the archives are really dusty. Yuck.
June 20, 2008 at 7:21 am
silbey
I own your book, Silbey; I just haven’t read it yet
I own you, Ari. And I can read you just like a book.
June 20, 2008 at 7:38 am
Western Dave
I hate to get all serious here, but doesn’t everything from Stagecoach to (God help me) Dances with Wolves mean that the Indian Wars (popularly conceived) move into sniffing distance of the first division. And also don’t they get the big prize for biggest gap between perception and reality?
June 20, 2008 at 7:54 am
ari
Don’t worry about getting serious, Dave. We serve all kinds here. As to your point, yes, the Indian Wars are well known from Westerns. But, as I noted in the post, I don’t think most people think of them as wars. Certainly not in the way the Army did in the nineteenth century.
June 20, 2008 at 8:06 am
Western Dave
Oh, goody I get to anecdote. Growing up in the seventies I played only two kinds of “war.” World War II and Indian Wars. And if they don’t think of “cowboys and Indians” as wars what do they think of them as? And by Indian Wars were not talking King Phillip or 1812, but classic plains “Injun’ on horse with heap-um feathers.” Your colonial/Revolutionary Indian wars just don’t translate to screen all that well apparently. And I for one could never get into the Leatherstocking tales. BTW, apparently in all those John Ford Westerns shot in Monument Valley the Navajo actors are saying rude things whenever they are called on to speak Injun’.
June 20, 2008 at 8:44 am
eric
the Navajo actors are saying rude things
I really hope this is true, and look forward to the special edition DVDs with subtitles.
June 20, 2008 at 9:13 am
The Modesto Kid
what do they think of them as?
This is just conjecture, but I don’t think most people in America think of the Indians as separate nations which were being conquered by cowboy armies. That’s why I suggested “police action” above — the perception is that the land belonged to the United States and the cowboys were in a sort of law-enforcement role of evicting squatters. Maybe?
June 20, 2008 at 9:42 am
Western Dave
Hm, usually with evictions and squatters you just dump all their stuff in the street. Okay, Gorras Blancas might be a bit different, and there was some actual shooting in the Lincoln County War, but did anybody besides Peter Brady ever play Billy the Kid? I don’t think most people think of the Germans or Japanese as separate nations with armies and strategies. They are Nazis and Japs and, like Injun’s, you kill them all with your mighty weapons while performing heroic deeds and rescuing damsels and/or artifacts. Geez, I’m starting to convince myself to side with Drinnon and Slotkin: Indian Wars aren’t just near the Major Leagues, they are the Super Bowl of the American War psyche. Oh goodness, that must mean it’s lunchtime.
June 20, 2008 at 10:42 am
bill
Slightly OT, but I’ve always loved the Theodore White report of a comment directed to General Patrick J. Hurley by a U.S. Army colonel in China during WWII, “General, it looks as if you have a medal there for every campaign except Shays’ Rebellion.”
June 20, 2008 at 10:48 am
ari
Equally applicable to John McCain (as we circle back to the first thread)!
June 20, 2008 at 11:42 am
Spike
Shays Rebellion was way more boring than the Whiskey Rebellion :)
June 20, 2008 at 11:52 am
The Modesto Kid
Aren’t the two pretty similar?
June 20, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Charlieford
I thought Grenada was “Operation: Urgent, Get Beirut Off the Front Page!”
June 20, 2008 at 2:06 pm
ari
Better than, “Operation Instant Mutton,” the super-secret codename for the British operation in the Falklands.
June 20, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Spike
No, they were totally different. In the case of Shay’s rebellion, you had Massachusetts farmers pissed off about paying taxes, whereas, in the Whiskey Rebellion, the pissed off tax-hating farmers were from Pennsylvania.
June 21, 2008 at 5:04 am
CharleyCarp
State taxes vs. federal taxes.
And there’s Bob Dylan and Copper Kettle.
Through a long chain of moving from one thing to another, I ran across a chart of electoral college selection procedures for the presidential election of 1796. It has a variation that is kind of interesting to look at after the 2008 Democratic nomination process.
June 21, 2008 at 7:36 am
gravity’s rainbow » What I've noticed (too busy to keep up with reading edition)
[…] wars are organized by how we remember them over at The Edge of the American West. When that makes you feel terrible, go calm down by looking at Emily’s fantastic fern […]