This is not disappointing at all. And good for Obama for saying his opponents are “lying.” Because they are. And there’s no point pretending otherwise.
Via Nick at cogitamus.
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39 comments
August 5, 2008 at 2:36 pm
eric
I’m thinking he’s going to look good in debates.
August 5, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Neddy Merrill
Damn. He’s like a wonk with a comic streak.
I think he’ll look good too, even though he’s not a great debater, because McCain has given him an awful lot to work with.
August 5, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Vance Maverick
He looks very good when he gets the audience on his side — which he can do pretty reliably, given time and undivided attention. I don’t remember him making that happen so much in the primary debates.
August 5, 2008 at 2:56 pm
zunguzungu
He says it like its a bad thing. Typical latte sipping elitism; when will Barack Obama understand that “ignorance” is as American as apple pie and bigotry? Why *does* he hate this country so much?
August 5, 2008 at 2:56 pm
eric
I think he had to be nicer to Clinton than he will have to be to McCain. Or at least, this is my impression. But what do I know?
August 5, 2008 at 3:21 pm
andrew
The trouble with conservatives, my friends, is that they know so much that isn’t so.
August 5, 2008 at 3:24 pm
andrew
Oh, and how good Obama is in the debates is partly going to depend on what kind of constraints are established when the campaigns negotiate over the rules (right down to placement of the podiums, camera angles, how many glasses of water are allowed, the setting on the thermostat, etc.).
August 5, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Vance Maverick
Are you thinking of the respective climates of Arizona and Illinois? Or of Panama City and Hawaii (or was it Indonesia)?
August 5, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Fats Durston
campaigns negotiate over the rules (right down to placement of the podiums, camera angles, how many glasses of water are allowed, the setting on the thermostat, etc.).
By etc., I assume you mean earbuds and back-hump electronic coaching devices.
August 5, 2008 at 3:56 pm
andrew
And there’s also the matter of the moderators.
August 5, 2008 at 3:58 pm
bitchphd
Debates or no, this kind of thing is exactly the way to respond to McCain’s (astonishingly pathetic) ads of late. So.
That said, of *course* he’ll do better in the debates. He actually knows stuff. Whereas McCain repeatedly demonstrates that he doesn’t know his own damn voting record.
August 5, 2008 at 4:12 pm
daniel.waweru
zunguzungu
There’s at least a couple of times when the crowds seemed indifferent, and he did well. Feeling quite as dizzy as your pseudonym suggests you are? :-)
August 5, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Michael Elliott
This is good. This is the rhetoric he needs to get in front of the cameras more often.
Is anyone else disappointed that he didn’t take McCain up on the offer of the town halls? Obama is better when he runs like the contender, not the incumbent.
August 5, 2008 at 4:20 pm
ari
I think it’s charming that you all think the debates will matter. If memory serves, in 2004, President Bush had one debate where he could barely remember his own name, much less his voting record, another where Kerry merely cleaned his clock, and then there was the third tilt that was supposedly closer. And that, of course, was the only one that mattered.
Democrats are supposed to win debates. Just like they’re supposed to know things and care about knowing things. Republicans, by contrast, are supposed to be tough. Or genial. Or tough and genial. And very manly. And not too thin. And not too popular. Or something. Can you tell that the campaign is starting to get to me? Well? Can you? Because it is.
Anyway, B’s right (which is why you should all go to her for advice). This is exactly how Obama should deal with this crap: very sharp elbows, a knowing shrug, and a friendly chuckle.
August 5, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Vance Maverick
Ari, you forgot that they’re not supposed to be too fat.
Daniel, that comment was from me, Vance Maverick. (In Internet Expthis layout is off-by-one like a misbuttoned shirt.) I’ll seize on anything, even dizziness, as a source for optimism about the race.
August 5, 2008 at 4:36 pm
andrew
I think it’s charming that you all think the debates will matter.
They’re like a reality show on which nothing important depends (unlike reality shows where there’s money and stuff at stake). Or maybe like those tests in school that you’re supposed to take seriously even though they won’t matter to your final grade. Anyway, I don’t think they matter much, but how they’re constructed matters in terms of whether the candidates will do well in them.
August 5, 2008 at 4:36 pm
eric
Kerry merely cleaned his clock
Kerry won the debates, but he didn’t look good doing it. Obama looks good doing it. You’re not attending sufficiently to superficialities.
August 5, 2008 at 4:40 pm
ari
but how they’re constructed matters in terms of whether the candidates will do well in them
This is absolutely right.
You’re not attending sufficiently to superficialities.
This is absolutely right.
Honestly, the problem for me is the energy debate. The idea that the McCain camp is handing out tire gauges, mocking the idea of conservation, really is driving me nuts.
August 5, 2008 at 4:41 pm
eric
Commie.
August 5, 2008 at 5:44 pm
urbino
“ignorance” is as American as apple pie and bigotry
I love apple pie and bigotry. Right after apple pie and ice cream, it’s my favorite summertime dessert.
August 5, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Vance Maverick
I always thought it was violence that was as American as apple pie. But Google tells me that it was really cherry! Now I’m confused — which is more American, apple or cherry pie? Ignorance or violence? Maybe we don’t have to choose.
August 5, 2008 at 6:27 pm
ben wolfson
Kerry won the debates, but he didn’t look good doing it.
That whole thing about disparate perceptions of who beat whom between Nixon and that other guy, depending on whether one was a television viewer or merely a radio auditor, revealed to me long ago that democracy doesn’t work.
August 5, 2008 at 6:31 pm
eric
Wow, ben, you’re cranky beyond your years.
August 5, 2008 at 6:35 pm
ben wolfson
I was an old man at twelve.
August 5, 2008 at 6:57 pm
ari
You were young before that? I’m not buying it.
August 5, 2008 at 6:58 pm
ben wolfson
I didn’t say I was young before that.
August 5, 2008 at 7:14 pm
daniel.waweru
Daniel, that comment was from me, Vance Maverick. (In Internet Expthis layout is off-by-one like a misbuttoned shirt.) I’ll seize on anything, even dizziness, as a source for optimism about the race.
Vance (and zunguzungu), apologies both.
August 5, 2008 at 7:27 pm
ari
I didn’t say I was young before that.
Noted.
August 5, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Levi Stahl
Obama looks good doing it.
Bingo. Obama looks comfortable in himself and in what he’s saying nearly any time he’s at the mike, and he looks especially comfortable throwing elbows like this. His laugh lines don’t come off as scripted, or as an intentional effort to humanize a candidate, the way Kerry’s so often did. I think the assessment of his performance in the debates, therefore, will be much stronger.
Honestly, I fear at this point that what he’s up against isn’t that, it’s the whole, “Why didn’t he clean McCain’s clock more thoroughly?” question, which I’m beginning to worry may dominate the post-debate discussion; it’s a variation on the “Why isn’t he winning bigger already?” question that keeps coming up now.
August 5, 2008 at 8:32 pm
politicalfootball
Right, Levi. The question is never whether Kerry or Gore or Obama wins the debate, it’s whether they beat the spread. I promise you, the media is going to be favoring Obama by at least three touchdowns.
August 5, 2008 at 8:35 pm
politicalfootball
And contrary to Michael above, Obama should do as few debates as possible – no unnecessary joint appearances with McCain at all. You play the media’s game and you play with a stacked deck.
August 5, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Cala
Is anyone else disappointed that he didn’t take McCain up on the offer of the town halls?
Not really. I remember being impressed by McCain, and especially in that kind of format, where his ’straight-talk’ style plays well. I worry Obama is going to come out like a nerdy law prof.
That whole thing about disparate perceptions of who beat whom between Nixon and that other guy, depending on whether one was a television viewer or merely a radio auditor, revealed to me long ago that democracy doesn’t work
That’s true, as is the phenomenon pf mentions; if Obama is favored by the media to rock the debates, and merely does a highly competent job, they will start up the narrative of how he lost.
August 5, 2008 at 9:22 pm
andrew
There are some problems with the 1960 debate perceptions story.
August 5, 2008 at 9:31 pm
ben wolfson
Print the legend, andrew.
August 5, 2008 at 9:35 pm
andrew
But that just means people will continue to be wrong on the internet.
August 6, 2008 at 8:27 am
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August 6, 2008 at 10:39 am
Martin G.
My preferred summer dessert is a nice compassionate modern bigotry sorbet, really. It feels fresher, more refreshing and its a lot more cold and calculated for the summer heat. In the fall (October, say), I feel that good, old-fashioned bigotry is more seasonal.
August 6, 2008 at 3:40 pm
zunguzungu
Hey Daniel! I’m just tickled to have my pseudonym so excellently punned upon. The dizzy mzungu, indeed…
August 11, 2008 at 1:05 am
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