In a post on the anniversary of MLK’s assassination, Matthew Yglesias writes that:
…to some extent I think the creation of the King Myth and the displacement of the more authentic radical King is a good thing. A country doesn’t get official national hero types without mythologizing and sanitizing them to a large extent, and it’s a good thing, at the end of the day, that King has moved into national hero status.
To be fair to Yglesias, I’ve ripped the above quote, without context, from a longer post in which he actually presents a more radical depiction of King than we usually see. Still, I tripped over the section I’ve quoted, and I want to respond to it here.
I should begin by saying that two-thirds of what Yglesias writes is true enough: this country doesn’t memorialize its heroes without first mythologizing and sanitizing them; and it is a good thing that we remember King. But I’m not sure that Yglesias’s transitive logic works from there. I’m skeptical, in short, that “the creation of the King Myth and the displacement of the more authentic radical King is a good thing.”
And here’s why: David Blight argues that, in the the wake of the Civil War, whites in the North and the South reunited without grappling with the war’s causes. Getting back to the business of doing business was easier and more appealing than sorting out why 620,000 people had died in the nation’s most brutal conflict. Notherners and southerners arrived at a convenient series of shared myths about the war: both sides had fought hard, both sides had fought well, and both sides had fought for just causes. A few skeptics, notably Frederick Douglass, challenged this emerging conventional wisdom about the war. But most Americans ignored the naysayers. As a result, the root rather than proximate causes of the fighting — slavery and racial inequities — dropped out of contemporary discussions in service of easy reunion.
Americans, in sum, postponed a national conversation about race. Reconstruction then failed. The South revived its antebellum social and economic castes: tying African-Americans to the land, disfranchising freed people, segregating public facilities. Notherners looked on, profited, and often participated in similar processes. Only the Civil Rights movement eventually overturned those entrenched hierarchies.
Which is why Yglesias’s post doesn’t sit well with me. Collective memories, ephemeral though they may be, have consequences. Our common understanding of the past helps to shape our behavior in the present. It matters, then, that the MLK of American memory is, as I’ve suggested before, too simple and too safe. It matters that this deracinated MLK is a byproduct of corporate sponsorship. King’s critique of American imperialism, racism, and, most of all, capitalism have all been replaced by cuddly calls for unity, for Christian fellowship, for reconciliation. Those are, to be sure, pleasant memories. But they may forestall discussions of what divided us in the first place; they might stand in the way of King’s goal of social justice for all people.
* I kid. My original title was a quote from Yglesias’s post. But then I re-read what I’ve written here and realized what a scold I sound like am. Thus the new title, which is, perhaps, better than Eric’s suggestion, “Matthew Yglesias: Bad for the Jews.”

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April 4, 2008 at 6:14 pm
bitchphd
“emories”?
April 4, 2008 at 6:15 pm
eric
The great stock of nailfiles, which prevented us coming to grips with race.
April 4, 2008 at 6:18 pm
ari
I hate both of you. One of you is decidedly not Kennedyesque. At all. And the other, if you’ll remember, is BANNED. Anyway, I was still editing. But now you’ve ruined everything, the first time I haven’t hated one of my posts in weeks (stalks from keyboard, tears streaming down his face, and slams door).
April 4, 2008 at 6:24 pm
bitchphd
I actually wondered if “emories” was a neologism or academicism I didn’t know about meaning something like “erased memories.”
April 4, 2008 at 6:45 pm
A White Bear
Duh, B, “emories” are what you use to make your fingernails pretty.
April 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm
urbino
That would make “emories” the visual equivalent of onomatopoeia, right?
King’s critique of American imperialism, racism, and, most of all, capitalism have all been replaced by cuddly calls for unity, for Christian fellowship, for reconciliation. Those are, to be sure, pleasant memories. But they may forestall discussions of what divided us in the first place; they might stand in the way of King’s goal of social justice for all people.
Reclaiming those aspects of King by posting his words and providing historical context seems like the kind of a project a history blog might undertake. (Particularly if one of the proprietors thereof were rumored to be Kennedyesque, thereby sort of owing King one.)
April 4, 2008 at 7:00 pm
urbino
That said, I think I agree with Yglesias. Yeah, it would be great if Americans, as a group, could see King as a hero without sanitizing him, but we can’t. We can just barely grant him hero status even when we do sanitize. To wit: the embarrassing reaction to McCain when he said he was wrong to vote against the MLK holiday.
Given the real choices available, I’ll take the mythologized, sanitized King over the completely forgotten King. The King of collective memory may not stand for all the things the real King did, but at least he keeps some of them alive in collective memory.
April 4, 2008 at 7:17 pm
silbey
My God, I think I just agreed with urbino on something.
April 4, 2008 at 7:21 pm
eric
I actually like the post, myself.
April 4, 2008 at 7:25 pm
ari
Except for the spelling mistakes, you mean, right?
And as for you, Urbino, and you, Silbey, if the best we can do is a bastardized history, refracted through hazy memories filled with racial harmony and ponies, count me out. Seriously, what’s the point? Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
April 4, 2008 at 7:57 pm
eyeingtenure
If I prefer the candystore version of Martin Luther King, Jr., then I prefer the version of Columbus who made four heroic voyages without killing any Indians.
See? Harmless substitution.
April 4, 2008 at 8:30 pm
GreyGhost
There’s so much more richness in the story (history?) of the “real” King, and so much more for us to learn from him than from the sanitized MLK who inspires people to hold hands, sing, and celebrate diversity. Not that there’s anything wrong with any of those things, but what made King human is at least as interesting as what made him a human rights icon.
April 4, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Rob_in_Hawaii
First of all, I’m usually a big fan of Yglesias’s writing. But, Like Ari, I too find the “sanitizing” of MLK’s legacy (and, quite frankly, the rest civil rights movement’s) to be problematic.
The annual MLK Holiday and today’s commemoration in Memphis (including John McCain’s belated apology) are welcome, but the popular portrayal of King’s efforts, and the thousands of other individual acts of black courage, seem to me to have been reduced to a recognition of some inevitable force that somehow made sure that everyone could sit anywhere on city buses and that water fountains could be used by all.
Somewhere in the shuffle America seems to have lost sight of the centuries-long, murderous violence inflicted on African Americans and the extraordinary efforts made by several generations in the monumental struggle for justice.
From the Montgomery Bus Boycott to the March on Washington to Selma to the anti-war movement to his last fight in Memphis, America needs to recognize the radicalism and the courage of MLK and the rest of that generation of heroes.
The battle for the “memory” of the Civil War, as noted above, resulted in a similar sanitized history, a history of that conflict that usually overlooks the root causes of Southern treason, replacing it with a story of a noble, yet misguided shedding of blood between Americans who were both right in their own ways.
I think that today we’re in the midst of a similar struggle to control the national memory of an era — the meaning of the Civil Rights years. I, for one, don’t want to see the narrative of what actually happened subverted by similar sanitizing forces. MLK’s radicalism should be celebrated for what it is, not shorn of its rough edges to make it more palatable for John McCain and the rest of his ilk.
April 4, 2008 at 8:38 pm
urbino
hazy memories filled with racial harmony and ponies
But that’s clearly not the case with, King. Maybe I’m misoverestimating the collective memory, but I think it’s still the case that our recollection of King brings with it recollections of Bloody Sunday, Bull Connor, bodies retrieved from Mississippi swamps, bombed churches and dead little girls; of that balcony at the Lorraine Motel; of black dignity in the face of the rawest kind of white stupidity and terrorism, over and over and over again in city after city after city.
That may not be Stokely Carmichael or Fred Hampton, but it’s hardly racial harmony and magic ponies. It may not include Cicero, IL, or the Riverside sermon or the sanitation workers’ strike, but it’s a long, long way from nothing. Saying that because the King we remember doesn’t include his peace activism or his economic activism, he isn’t worth remembering at all, strikes me as wrongheaded.
What historical figure, place, or event ever survives whole in the collective memory?
April 4, 2008 at 8:43 pm
urbino
My God, I think I just agreed with urbino on something.
Silbey and I agreeing: now that’s harmony and ponies.
April 4, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Megan
what a scold I
sound likeamI am pretty darn confident in my lead for hectoring scold of blogland. I mean, this was a good effort* but you’d need at least half a dozen more to give me a run for the money.
*although not self-righteous and moralizing enough. Those will come with practice.
April 4, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Vance Maverick
What historical figure, place, or event ever survives whole in the collective memory?
Exactly. I was going to post the same question. And if not “whole”, then “sufficiently nuanced to satisfy an Ari or Eric.”
April 4, 2008 at 9:27 pm
ari
“Whole,” if I’m following you, Urbino, may be too much to ask for. But fleshed-out seems possible, particularly if you look at changes at a place like Colonial Williamsburg, where slavery is now central to the tourist experience. In other words, public history and memory are evolving, becoming more sophisticated and nuanced, and challenging people to think critically about the past. I don’t think the popular depiction of King does that, for the most part at least. As for the examples that you mention, I don’t think any of that is typically part of the collective memory of King, which hinges on non-violence and a beautiful speech.
And again, my issue is that the cuddly, corporate King may be forestalling progress on the very issues that the real King held most dear at the end of his life. That was why Yglesias’s post got stuck in my craw, the idea that, “Well, this is the best we’re gonna do, so we should be happy with what we’ve got.”
April 4, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Very interesting « Stuff ‘n stuff ‘n more stuff
[...] 5, 2008 post about national memory. Read it. Here’s the money [...]
April 4, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Very interesting « Stuff ‘n stuff ‘n more stuff
[...] 5, 2008 post about national memory. Read it. Here’s the money [...]
April 4, 2008 at 10:02 pm
urbino
As for the examples that you mention, I don’t think any of that is typically part of the collective memory of King
Really? Really really? I find that all but impossible to believe. It certainly hasn’t been my experience. I mean, admittedly, I’ve lead a somewhat rarefied existence as an adult (we prefer this phrase to the term “loner,” which has a certain pejorative bite), but I don’t think I know anybody for whom those things don’t come immediately to mind at the mention of King. I’m not sure I’ve ever known such a person.
the cuddly, corporate King
Can you give me some examples of this, Ari? I’m not sure I know what you’re referring to.
April 4, 2008 at 10:11 pm
ari
Urbino, read the original King post that I wrote, linked in this post and in Eric’s of earlier today. CocaCola and Miller Brewing became corporate sponsors of the effort to create the King holiday. That’s what I’m talking about.
And honestly, you’re telling me that if I walk into my local grocery store and say to a shopper in the dairy section, “Hey, do you know who Bull Connor was? Or, if not, do you know what the significance of the Lorraine Motel is in American history? Or, failing that, can you tell me where I might find the Edmund Pettus Bridge?” I’ll get good answers. I doubt it. I think that I’ll get a pretty blank look in return. But, if I ask, “Do you know about the ‘I Have a Dream Speech’? Or have you heard of Rosa Parks?” I suspect that I’d be in business. That’s my only point, that the popular memory has smooth not rough edges.
In the end, I think it matters a great deal that you’ve studies the movement and live where you live. You’re weird, in other words. But so am I, so join the club. Are you on Facebook? We can be friends.
April 5, 2008 at 1:48 am
Ben Alpers
Given the real choices available, I’ll take the mythologized, sanitized King over the completely forgotten King. The King of collective memory may not stand for all the things the real King did, but at least he keeps some of them alive in collective memory.
I actually think there’s a third option, which is preferable to both these: a remembered King who is seen as radical.
There are plenty of figures in American history who are remembered, but whose memory divides Americans to this day: e.g. Robert E. Lee, Malcolm X, Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and FDR.
I would prefer a remembered and challenging King. No, we couldn’t unite around such a figure. But King’s goal was not to forge a shallow unity in the present, but to move us to a deeper unity in the future.
For what it’s worth, I’m less of a fan of Matt Yglesias than Ari and, it appears, many of this blog’s other commentators. When push comes to shove he seems often to be more inclined to try to join those in power than to speak truth to them. What Ari criticizes here seems very much a piece with that, as did Yglesias’s erstwhile support of the Iraq War.
April 5, 2008 at 4:20 am
Iraq War » Comment on Shame on you, Matthew Yglesias.* by Ben Alpers
[...] PC Free Zone wrote an interesting post today on Comment on Shame on you, Matthew Yglesias.* by Ben AlpersHere’s a quick excerptWhat Ari criticizes here seems very much a piece with that, as did Yglesias’s erstwhile support of the Iraq War. [...]
April 5, 2008 at 4:44 am
War In Iraq » Comment on Shame on you, Matthew Yglesias.* by Ben Alpers
[...] Wake Up From Your Slumber | The Truth Will Set You Free wrote an interesting post today on Comment on Shame on you, Matthew Yglesias.* by Ben AlpersHere’s a quick excerptWhat Ari criticizes here seems very much a piece with that, as did Yglesias’s erstwhile support of the Iraq War. [...]
April 5, 2008 at 6:05 am
PorJ
Isn’t “popular memory” a (very) contested terrain? I mean, back to the Jerry Lembke example*: some argue (as you did, Ari) that it matters whether veterans actually got spit on because it illustrates the distortions and politicizations of popular memory. Following up on that: is the less radical/early “I Have a Dream” King as authentic as the more economically-focused later King? Or is it such that the earlier calls to (political and social) equality speak deeply to the founders’ vision? King’s jeremiads about the promise of justice resonated precisely because they were made in the context of the Cold War and the centenary anniversary of the Civil War. His economic populism, his marching with strikers, etc. is (unquestionably) more divisive; he indicted America’s capitalistic excesses in a way that could be construed (and was) as “class warfare” during the Cold War. Makes sense that popular memory would favor one over the other. The media at the time did, too.
The real question of which is the “authentic” King is related to the questions of the “authentic” Lincoln, Jefferson, etc. We’ll be arguing about it for years, because the political arena is such that authenticity is incredibly difficult to discern in real time, much less in historical perspective. This gets to evidence: is private correspondence always more authentic than public utterances? What if the correspondence - or personal communication/discussion - has been tailored to the recipient’s worldview? We could go on and on.
My attitude (which will infuriate readers of this blog) is that battling it out over King’s economic dreams will get us about as far as John Edwards’ campaign. There are multiple reasons economic populism doesn’t seem to work too effectively on the national stage.
If you want to stress King’s economic populism, you’ll be met by plenty of muck about with his plagiarism, his womanizing, and his (relative) effectiveness (see Thurgood Marshall on marches). Those are fine historical discussions but no so good for historical memory. With America’s endemic racism, its actually a miracle more Americans (probably) know about “I Have a Dream” than the plagiarism in his dissertation.
Finally: don’t forget the King Family’s role in the corporatization of the King memory. An interesting lawsuit can be found here if you’ve never heard of ESTATE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR., INC., v. CBS, INC. (1999).
*sorry - but it is germane to this post as it discusses the development and evolution of popular memory, and the role of the media (and capitalism) in re-shaping and popularizing the past)
April 5, 2008 at 6:24 am
eric
an Ari or Eric
It’s not as if we come in six-packs, you know.
April 5, 2008 at 6:48 am
silbey
f the best we can do is a bastardized history, refracted through hazy memories filled with racial harmony and ponies, count me out.
I think what urbino was suggesting, and that I was agreeing to, was that this happens–more or less–to EVERY mythic historic figure: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, etc. They become representational figures within American nationalism representing certain archetypes in the legend of the American nation: the Father of the Country (Washington), the Redeemer of Sins (Lincoln), etc. Anything that is still contested or doesn’t fit into that narrative gets sanded off. Martin Luther King (a Redeemer for the Modern World) has been swallowed whole in that process and shaped to fit into it: civil rights (equality of opportunity, etc) good; economic justice (oo, socialism) bad. This is the building of the American imagined community in action right in front of us.
As historians, I think we’re being unsophisticated simply to bemoan the process. Better, I think, to try and understand and analyze it. For example, it strikes me, reading this thread, that there’s an evolutionary process to it. As someone pointed out, the popular memory of slavery (Colonial Williamsburg etc) is becoming more nuanced. That suggests that as people and memories are incorporated into the national mythos, there’s an initial period where those people and memories become deeply simplistic, and only slowly does more nuance and complexity get added back in.
April 5, 2008 at 7:01 am
War In Iraq » Comment on Shame on you, Matthew Yglesias.* by eric
[...] BrothersJudd Blog wrote an interesting post today on Comment on Shame on you, Matthew Yglesias.* by ericHere’s a quick excerpt…an Ari or Eric… [...]
April 5, 2008 at 7:04 am
Ben Alpers
This thread seems to have become attacked by a bizarre form of trackback spam!
April 5, 2008 at 7:13 am
eric
simply to bemoan the process
But silbey, I don’t think Ari is bemoaning the process—and he’s one of those historians who actually does spend time analyzing it, in his real scholarly career.
Rather, Ari is annoyed with Yglesias for saying the process is jolly good.
April 5, 2008 at 7:39 am
silbey
But silbey, I don’t think Ari is bemoaning the process—and he’s one of those historians who actually does spend time analyzing it, in his real scholarly career.
Rather, Ari is annoyed with Yglesias for saying the process is jolly good.
The chunk of his post I quoted seems to me to indicate differently.
April 5, 2008 at 8:14 am
eric
I don’t think you’re adequately weighting the phrase “best we can do”. Let me rehearse the argument as I understand it.
1. Americans sanitize heroes, including MLK.
2. Yglesias: Hurray for sanitizing! (At least it’s better than ignorance.)
3. Kelman: Boo on saying “hurray for sanitizing”. It is not in fact the “best we can do”.
If I wanted to be a super clever pundit type person, what I would say is, well, hurray for sanitizing—not because it’s better than ignorance, but because it opens a door to further historical pursuits, through which one can arrive at better-than-myth.
But for that argument to work, the tortuous path over which some people would travel past “lies my teacher told me” would have to host more, or more influential, travelers than the path of comfortable myth.
April 5, 2008 at 9:05 am
ari
I’m going to quote myself, because I’m just that good:
I should begin by saying that two-thirds of what Yglesias writes is true enough: this country doesn’t memorialize its heroes without first mythologizing and sanitizing them; and it is a good thing that we remember King. But I’m not sure that Yglesias’s transitive logic works from there. I’m skeptical, in short, that “the creation of the King Myth and the displacement of the more authentic radical King is a good thing.”
That’s what I meant. And I have to run or I’d say more. Sorry.
April 5, 2008 at 10:17 am
zunguzungu
If I could pipe in, Ben Alpers wrote about wanting “a remembered King who is seen as radical,” and I, too, find that the only kind of King worth remembering. But the thing about King is that it’s not radical to be against segregation anymore, just as slavery is not really controversial any more (in fact, the colonial Williamsburg sense of it, as I recall, is that it was A Very Bad Thing, but now it’s over, so we can feel good about America again, or something). Standing up in favor of either segregation or slavery today is the equivalent of removing oneself from the political gene pool (see under Frist, Bill, or the ways that the early William Buckley got renounced by the late Buckley).
So while “America” might understand that King fought a very divisive battle against a lot of Americans back then, the fact that the country has come to share those radical opinions (such that they are no longer radical) means we get to embrace the radical King that isn’t radical anymore. And the side of King that was a radical on the issues that are still alive and debated is the one that gets forgotten. For example, the King who believed that basic economic well-being was a right (not an earned privilege) would be a relevant voice to hear in discussions on health care. Even more importantly, I think his philosophical approach to Vietnam is one that would find almost no takers in a democratic party nominally opposed to the Iraq war, which for me says something about how unlikely they are to ever end it.
April 5, 2008 at 11:39 am
silbey
zunguzungu’s point is akin to mine, but I’ll rephrase what was saying anyway, because, well, historians tend to do that (”I will agree with you but in a very long-winded way, so there.”)
What I’m objecting to is the simplification of how people become mythologized. It’s not that mythic figures become “cuddly” as Ari argues, it’s that they get remembered for the issues that had been deeply divisive but around which some kind of consensus had emerged–in zunguzungu’s very nice phrase “the radical King that isn’t radical anymore.” Things that are still contested–like economic issues and imperialism–get sanded off because that’s not for what American society is using the mythic figure. But remembering King as American society does–as a crusader for African-American civil rights and one who was assassinated–is actually making a statement that would be revolutionary for most of 20th century America.
Same thing for Lincoln. Remembering him for ending slavery–accurate or not–is making a statement that would be revolutionary for 19th and most of 20th century America. The shift in the image of Robert E. Lee over the past fifty years is a similar statement.
When we put this along a spectrum of “good/bad” or “simplistic/authentic” we miss, I think, a large part of a much more subtle and interesting shift.
I do wonder what MLK would think about his image…
April 5, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Walt
Ari, in what way do you imagine things would be different if the public memory of King were more radical?
April 5, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Megan
I think of sanitized Dr. King as a placeholder until we hit the next stage in our collective enlightenment and can absorb more of his message. I don’t know that it would mean much about Dr. King if his public memory were more radical, but it would be a reflection on how much we can accept and handle.
April 5, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Polemic Pontification » Blog Archive » Garbage collector or sanitation engineer? Euphemistically speaking, I’m a …
[...] Brilliant.If you are curious about the context and who wrote this clever euphemism, I spied it in a comment to a post on one of my regular blogs, The Edge of the American West (which needs to be added to my [...]
April 5, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Ben Alpers
What I’m objecting to is the simplification of how people become mythologized. It’s not that mythic figures become “cuddly” as Ari argues, it’s that they get remembered for the issues that had been deeply divisive but around which some kind of consensus had emerged–in zunguzungu’s very nice phrase “the radical King that isn’t radical anymore.” Things that are still contested–like economic issues and imperialism–get sanded off because that’s not for what American society is using the mythic figure.
Again, I think there’s a middle ground here.
I agree that mythologizing necessarily involves some, er, cuddlifying. But figures that are mythical for particular groups can be less thoroughly cuddly than truly national mythic figures.
To take two examples I’ve already mentioned (’cause I’m too lazy to think of others): both Malcolm X and Barry Goldwater have become mythic figures, though their central appeal is not to the entire nature, but to particular subcultures.
The remembered Malcolm and Goldwater are both more cuddly than the “authentic” versions of either of them. Yet both remain challenging, though sometimes in peculiar ways. Cuddly Goldwater®’s, for example, is largely invoked by conservatives of a certain age as a challenge to today’s GOP (see Dean, John). This bears some resemblance to where Goldwater was at the very end of his political career, but seems pretty far from the man who won his few electoral votes on the basis of his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
As zunguzungu suggests, King’s views on poverty and war and peace, which became more central to his politics toward the end of his life, are not only not much remembered, but would find little support even among the leadership of the Democratic Party. I’d go further and say that these views are almost entirely excluded from our political discourse. We’re not talking John Edwards (mentioned above) here. We’re talking to the left of Dennis Kucinich, who even most self-described progressives seem uninterested in listening to, let alone voting for.
This is why I think that a more parochial, but less cuddly, King might not be such a bad thing. He probably wouldn’t have a federal holiday named after him. Then again, there has never been a federal holiday honoring Lincoln, either (what most states call “Presidents’ Day” is still, officially, the celebration of Washington’s Birthday).
The memory of an Only Slightly Cuddly MLK® might goad us to consider King’s views on poverty and war. This would be valuable precisely because today not only does Very Cuddly King® not do this, nothing else does either.
April 5, 2008 at 1:01 pm
urbino
And honestly, you’re telling me that if I walk into my local grocery store and say to a shopper in the dairy section…
The conversation has moved on, but my OCD drives me to respond. No, I don’t think your average dairy consumer would remember specifics like the Edmund Pettus Bridge, but I do think that if you asked Joe and Mary Milksop to name the first 5 things that came into their minds, and then showed them a photograph of MLK, some of the unpleasantness I named would be in there somewhere, however fuzzy the details.
Maybe you’re right that that’s been my experience because of where I live. That’s definitely possible. Perhaps the collective memory of King is a much more regional thing than our conversation thus far has reflected.
April 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm
silbey
cuddlifying.
You just won the thread.
But figures that are mythical for particular groups can be less thoroughly cuddly than truly national mythic figures.
Definitely, and a lovely analysis of how layered and particular this kind of mythologizing can be. It also makes me wonder how historical figures go from being mythical to a particular group to mythical to the nation. Or vice versa, for that matter.
April 5, 2008 at 2:13 pm
student
Right on the mark. That King considered himself a democratic socialist also should not be forgotten and ought to be memorialized in US history survey lectures. For his fundamental critique of US society, King’s last (?) book, “Chaos or Community”, is instructive.
April 5, 2008 at 2:44 pm
zunguzungu
One of the things that blue state America, if I can use the term, seems most comfortable with about the civil rights era is the way the sins of the past can be explained as a uniquely red state issue, i.e. racism as something that happens only in the nascar belt. The civil rights narrative of red-state hillbillies standing in the school door defying urban democrats like JFK, after all, is a narrative that allows issues like the economics and politics of systemic racism to go unremarked, because it locates the problem as one of rural hick-itude. When things like the nooses in Jena pop up, blue state liberals are prepared by that narrative to be outraged (as they should be). But when it’s police brutality in “bad neighborhoods” or racial profiling or the steady dismantling of affirmative action, the cuddly MLK has less than nothing to say: he’s only a cudgel for attacking ignorant hicks in the South.
It also seems to me that the King who made religion into a force for social justice is an absence the left suffers from very deeply in this era of high-horse lefty secularism (in which religion is only for ignorant rubes, goeth the gospel according to Dawkins and Hitchens). Noting that the left has conceded religion to the right, is nothing new of course, but a big part of it, I think, is a related kind of urban/rural regionalism: religion is for nascar folks, not for urban intellectuals who read Matt Yglesius. But the moral authority of the black church (and broad interfaith alliances) were such a huge part of what made the civil rights movement possible.
April 5, 2008 at 4:54 pm
urbino
So true. Back in my days as a budding church-state scholar of some sort, I used to talk about an “MLK Test” for theories of the proper interaction of church and state. That is, a proper theory of church and state would permit, even encourage, activities like those of MLK.
It’s a difficult test to pass. By and large, “liberal” notions of church and state tend to be expressed (or expressible) as “religious absolutes should not be made political absolutes.” That, of course, would put MLK on the wrong side of the law. “Conservative” notions of the interaction of church and state would allow an MLK, but, paradoxically, their conceptions of neither church nor state, taken individually, would ever permit an MLK to develop in the first place; indeed, both would actively oppose it.
I suppose that’s neither here nor there, but thanks for the opportunity to stroll down memory lane, zungu.
April 5, 2008 at 6:01 pm
ari
I’m so behind, I don’t know where to start. I wasted a whole day with my kids (what’s wrong with me?). Anyway, I’ll just say, again,that I’m not opposed to remembering King; I’m opposed to Yglesias celebrating a derecatined memory that elides some of King’s views on imperialism, racism, and capitalism.
From there, though, someone (Walt?) asked what would be different if we didn’t have such a cuddly King to console us about how far we’ve come since the evil southerners kicked around the black man. And my answer to that is that King, once he moved beyond de jure to de facto issues, began to challenge the North’s sense of its own racial rectitude. That element of his critique of American culture is almost entirely absent from the popular memory we have of King. It would be good if that were different. And I’m not convinced that the current vision of King, on this issue at least, is the only one that could have taken root in the national imagination.
As for imperialism and capitalism, I really do believe that there’s a case to be made that bringing Miller Brewing and CocaCola on board to push for the national holiday, and ignoring the role that organized labor played in keeping the idea alive across decades, made it much less likely that we’d remember King as an economic radical. King’s nuanced and challenging vision of American foreign policy, I agree, is a lost cause.
Finally, there seems to be another discussion brewing about the complexity of memory as it moves from the national stage to local communities. That’s a huge issue, of course, but I’m going to punt right now by saying that Yglesias wasn’t talking about such things. And neither was I. This really wasn’t a post about the mechanics of collective memory, so-called shared assumptions about the past that often aren’t really shared when you get a strong enough microscope. It was a post about the crudest kinds of national memory and how such memories are produced and shared across time and space. And I was suggesting that accepting the cuddly King is a bad idea, that we should seek more , even when we’re considering the most macro level.
Okay, back to the kids now.
April 5, 2008 at 6:05 pm
ari
Also, Urbino and Silbey, don’t think I’ll forget that you’ve betrayed me. Ben has been calling me an idiot for years; I’m used to it. But you guys are supposed to have my back. Zunguzungu, you’re still okay in my book. I’m not sure why. But that’s the way it is. Did Vance suggest, way upthread, that I’m right or wrong? I can’t remember and don’t have time to check. Anyway, I’m not arguing with our next president; there’s no margin in it.
April 5, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Wrongshore
One of the things that blue state America, if I can use the term, seems most comfortable with about the civil rights era is the way the sins of the past can be explained as a uniquely red state issue, i.e. racism as something that happens only in the nascar belt.
As always when this comes up, I recommend Randy Newman’s song Rednecks“. I won’t quote it here, because this is a family blog.
April 5, 2008 at 7:23 pm
urbino
King, once he moved beyond de jure to de facto issues, began to challenge the North’s sense of its own racial rectitude. That element of his critique of American culture is almost entirely absent from the popular memory we have of King. It would be good if that were different.
On that, at least, we agree.
Also, Urbino and Silbey, don’t think I’ll forget that you’ve betrayed me.
In my defense, it seems we were addressing two very different collective memories of King. Also, it must be some consolation to you that you brought silbey and me into agreement for the first time. You’re a uniter, not a divider. Our collective memory of you will be cuddly. And “derecatined” all to hell and gone.
April 5, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Walt
Let’s suppose that the public remembered King more accurately. One possibility is that this would make the public more receptive to causes that King supported, such as democratic socialism. Another possibility is that it would make the (white) public less receptive to anti-racism.
White people in America have chosen: a) to repudiate the virulent racism of the past, b) capitalism over socialism, and c) total forgetfulness of the reality of Vietnam. If they were forced to choose between those three, do you really think they would opt for a?
April 6, 2008 at 2:39 am
drip
What a great thread. I think Ari has seen the consequences of the cropped picture of King (and everybody else): This . . . was a post about the crudest kinds of national memory and how such memories are produced and shared across time and space. And I was suggesting that accepting the cuddly King is a bad idea, that we should seek more , even when we’re considering the most macro level. I agree.
Reverend Jeremiah Wright was saying many of the things that King did, but when his thoughts reached the white audience, they lacked context. Wright became a caricature of wild-eyed black nationalism. This is why the cuddly King is dangerous. If it is a first step, its not so bad, but many important forces want it to be the last step. You don’t need a microscope to tell the world that dogs ripped flesh, students were shot, citizens were jailed, humans were used as lab experiments because they asked for what was already theirs. OK, I’m a would-be scold too, but these are a few of the facts that don’t get brought up in the context of King, but were what he was talking about. So, he said, America will never be what it is supposed to be (the city on a hill to whites, the promised land to descendants of slaves — another divergence of context) until we fix these things.
The other image that I saw some of this year was the famous “I am a Man” sign that the Memphis waste workers wore around their necks as they worked in 1968. Its true, and its why King was in Memphis, and he was a man, too. And when you are a man who can put his life on the line for other men, you are a hero, and a prickly one, at that.
April 6, 2008 at 5:40 am
silbey
Also, Urbino and Silbey, don’t think I’ll forget that you’ve betrayed me
Bring it on. (Crap, that has bad associations)…uh…Make my day (no, that’s the *old* Clint Eastwood, not the new progressive-friendly Clint Eastwood)…Damnit…You looking at me? (Travis Bickle…really?)…Rats…(Locks door, hides under sofa).
cuddly King
The things that King stands for currently were *not* cuddly even a generation ago.
April 6, 2008 at 8:47 am
zunguzungu
I love the “MLK test,” urbino. What a great way of problematizing the issue. And drip, I was thinking about Wright too; it’s an interesting way to frame much of the debate within the democratic nomination, including the the “MLK needing a president” kerfuffle, which seems to be as much about the relation of church and state (and the “mass movements vs. top down liberalism” debate it somehow intersects with) as it is about race. And think of how different the “I’m proud of America for the first time” incident would be if people had to acknowledge that Michelle Obama was just repeating what MLK had said many times.
Ari wrote: “Zunguzungu, you’re still okay in my book. I’m not sure why. But that’s the way it is”
Clearly I’m doing something wrong.
April 6, 2008 at 9:48 am
charlieford
I can’t read Yglesias any other way than this: The Mythic King is the only King who was ever gonna have a slurpee’s chance in a sauna of being celebrated by mainstream (including corporate) America. The Mythic King provides an opportunity to discuss “the real King,” and that discussion WILL ACTUALLY MATTER (ie, will be recognized as important by significant chunks of the population) ONLY BECAUSE King is such a massive figure in popular culture. If King had not been mythologized, he would be obscure, and while historians and others would be retrieving his memory and pushing his example at people, NO ONE WOULD CARE, AND NO ONE WOULD LISTEN. (I exaggerate, but you know what I mean.) Who are the radicals who’s names and careers have anything like King’s mass recognition? Anne Hutchinson? Tom Paine? Frederick Douglass? Eugene Debs? Dorothy Day? They’re all obscure, and they’ll never have any serious popular traction because there’s no SANITIZED, MYTHIC version of them to deploy in the culture (maybe there was with Paine for awhile, but Foner did that in). So, let’s do the numbers: while more people have mistaken notions of who King was than appreciate the real King, more people know about the real King in 2008 than would otherwise. And that’s all due to the resonance of the Mythic King in popular culture (I’m including public schools and blvds. and such under that rubric). The names that have been floated as examples of controversial figures who have retained salience don’t really count: FDR and Reagan were presidents (and objectively important ones), so they get remembered just for that. Barry Goldwater? Come on. Stroll the sidewalks of your campus and do a poll: he’s forgotten. Robert E. Lee? Associated with the great watershed of US history which happens to be the most-written and televised event in our history, so he has name-recognition. Beyond that, Civil War buffs excepted? I don’t think so. So, Ari, it comes down to this: would you rather walk into class and say, “Today I want to talk about the REAL MLK, the one who no one wants you to know about,” and have everyone already know who you’re talking about and believe he’s significant, or would you prefer walking in and saying, “Today I want to tell you about a most important American, whom you’ve probably never heard of”? If you agree the former is better, you have the Mythic King to thank for that.
April 6, 2008 at 11:25 am
ari
Charlie, how many college students, do you think, take a class with me or you or somebody else who cares enough to tell them about the “real MLK”? And now, how many Americans, do you think, hear about a Dr. King absent any nuance or context? And if you’ll accept that the latter number of people exceeds the former by many orders of magnitude, would you be willing to concede that the Dr. King of American memory, he of the smooth edges, may stand in the way of the kinds of social change that the Dr. King of history, he of the rough edges, wanted for this nation and the world?
April 6, 2008 at 11:28 am
urbino
I’m still not ready to concede that “the Dr. King of American memory” is quite so smooth-edged. It’s just too alien to my experience. If my experience is a function of region, then it’s a big region, and it seems to me that has to have a fairly strong effect on the aggregate “American memory.”
April 6, 2008 at 11:37 am
ari
Not just region, Urbino, though that’s part of it, but also your interests and education.
April 6, 2008 at 12:00 pm
urbino
The thing is, I knew about the more dangerous aspects of King even when I was a kid — knew about them because I heard about them from the people I knew. None of them were terribly well educated; most were poor and poorly educated. So I really think it’s more a function of region than of my personal education level or interests.
It’s worth saying that discussion of King’s edgier aspects was very often negative. It was about King as troublemaker. Maybe that resentment served [and still serves], paradoxically, to help keep a fuller memory of King alive in the South than exists in other parts of the country.
Whatever the mechanism, I do think the things I mentioned way upthread are still part of the collective memory in the South. I hear it constantly in the way people talk about him, regardless of race or educational level.
April 6, 2008 at 12:13 pm
charlieford
Ari, I’m not disputing that the Mythic King, like other myths, is a distortion, and that it’s far more prevalent than the real King. Nor am I saying myths are easily dislodged. Of course there’s more misinformation about King than real understanding, and huge numbers of people just know the name and something about a dream. But THAT’S TRUE OF EVERYTHING. And everyone. There’s all kinds of radicalism back there that’s been lost. (And, to be fair, forgetting cuts in a lot of directions: how many people who recognize the name “Woodrow Wilson” know much about his racism? How many people know that many early “feminists” were too? That many “progressives” were convinced eugenicists? How many people who recall that “William Jennings Bryan” crusaded against evolution know he resigned as Sect. of State in protest of Wilson’s belligerence? That “Frederick Douglass” had a whole post-abolition career of agitating? So, I for one am hardly surprised–hardly even dismayed–if it happens with King.) When you ask, “would you be willing to concede that the Dr. King of American memory, he of the smooth edges, may stand in the way of the kinds of social change that the Dr. King of history, he of the rough edges, wanted for this nation and the world?” I guess I have to agree. But its not like the things King railed against–war, materialism, inequality, etc.–need the Mythic King to get along. They’d be just as strong without him. They’re no stronger, I’ll wager, with him. But, paradoxically, the deployment of the Mythic King means there’s more interest in the real King than otherwise there would be. And the alternative isn’t between the Mythic King as culture hero, and the Real King as culture hero. It’s between the Mythic king and no King at all. I think that’s what Yglesias is saying (with his “to some extent” and “at the end of the day”–which could be clearer). If he is, I agree with him. If he’s saying something else–that the Mythic King is better than the Real King–then I disagree.
April 6, 2008 at 1:09 pm
drip
how many Americans, do you think, hear about a Dr. King absent any nuance or context I take Ari’s point, and as I noted above, I think he is dead on. But to widen this a bit, to make a point (I hope), more blacks than whites get a nuanced view of King, because their mythology supports it easily, while the more widely disseminated myth does not. Most white Americans have a “cuddly” myth of their ancestors fleeing the Old World and starting from scratch in the new and making what they’ve made of themselves by their own efforts. The black experience does not allow for the acceptance of that cuddly myth by the descendants of slaves, even if they wish it to be so. Most black American families did not come here that way and did not have that opportunity. I think that the easy myth is an impediment to an accurate detailed, nuanced myth. It seems to divert most of the population away, rather than toward the truth, and that is bad. I cannot speak to which view is better, but as Bob Dylan is once supposed to have said “I know more about you than you’ll ever know about me.” That is why knowing the wrong myth is dangerous. Other people know more about you than you do.
April 6, 2008 at 3:47 pm
charlieford
Myths, or if you prefer, cuddly easy myths, always distort and divert. But they’re inevitable. If you’re going to have ideas about things that is. (You don’t have to have any ideas at all, of course.) But unless you’re for some reason really motivated to get to the truth of things, you’ll have a vague and inevitably comforting sense of it. I’m sure my physicist friends would recoil in horror at the cuddly and comforting sense I have of matter and gravity and such like.
April 6, 2008 at 4:17 pm
charlieford
Also, isn’t it “anniversary”?
April 6, 2008 at 4:18 pm
bitchphd
I’m inclined to agree with Charlieford.
April 6, 2008 at 4:38 pm
ari
Spelling fixed. Argument left intact. B still banned.
April 6, 2008 at 5:07 pm
drip
Myths, or stories or histories do distort, but if you want to get to the truth you will try to move from truth to better truth. It is possible to do that. We can swallow a little bit at a time, but if the myth is simple and presented as complete, it forever blocks the truth. If its simple and presented as incomplete, it leads somewhere else. I’m not really motivated to get to the truth, and most of what I know is wrong, in the sense that it is incomplete, but I’d rather be on the road to right than cling to a partial, truth just because its easy.
Anyway, I’m way over my head in abstraction. Maybe I’ll just wear a sign around my neck that says “I Am a Man” and tell people about Memphis in the winter of 1968.
April 6, 2008 at 6:20 pm
charlieford
OK, well, I’m just going to be repeating myself, so time to move on (I think). But just to remind: we (or I, and I think Yglesias) aren’t talking about whether hard truths are better than easy myths. We’re talking about whether it’s better to have King a national hero, recognized by almost everyone for some of the things he said that are palatable, even if the price is widespread non-recognition of his more radical message. I’m assuming WE JUST CAN’T have it both ways: radicalism intact and a national hero. If he’s going to remain radical, he’ll also descend to obscurity. I’ll take the national hero status and work with it, using it to explore “the real King.” But Ari, I’ll concede that those of us doing that, as many as there are, remain a drop in the bucket in the face of all the myth. What is more, I’ll concede that the King/Civil Rights myth as a whole (from small beginnings in Montgomery to national triumph in DC and the CR/VR Acts) generally serves to make Americans think “thank God we put that behind us” and assume all is nearly well. There’s a real down side. I just don’t think we can do much about that. People like myths, prefer them to reality, in fact. That’s life. Yglesias, I think, was looking for the proverbial silver lining, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t still looking at a cloud.
April 6, 2008 at 7:16 pm
ari
And I’ll concede, as I think have already — but if not, sorry — that a radical King of memory would be a more obscure King. My quibble, then, is with easy acceptance of the King myth, coupled with my worry that it may do more harm than good to King’s dream.
April 6, 2008 at 7:49 pm
David
Maybe we should come up with our own “national” holidays. I think King’s image has been corrupted by the mythologizing power of mainstream historical narratives. I propose that we celebrate Frantz Fanon Day every December 6, the anniversary of his death from leukemia in a Washington hospital. Every U.S. politician should be required to give a major speech extolling Fanon’s virtues as a propagandist for the FLN and symbol of international guerrilla movements.
April 6, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I looked up “sell-out” in the dictionary and found a picture of Juan Williams. « The Edge of the American West
[...] 6, 2008 in history and current events, memory by ari This is what you get. Er, I mean, I told you so. No, that’s not a good lede either. What I’m trying to say is, if we accept a [...]
April 7, 2008 at 7:48 am
zunguzungu
Charlieford wrote that “I’m assuming WE JUST CAN’T have it both ways: radicalism intact and a national hero” but I’m a little uncomfortable with that assumption, and the reasoning that flows out of it. While I take the point of it (the two are in direct conflict, and it’s necessary to see that), it’s also true that because there is no singular “we” of America, we already have both, at least; as drip pointed out, different populations in this country mythologize differently, and so there are already at least two or three MLK’s out there whose mythologies can’t be reconciled. So the question, for me, is not which do we choose, but how do “we” deal the fact that the MLK “we” assume is universally accepted is not, in fact, universal, and that there are other versions of that MLK in people’s minds (different MLK’s for different segments of the black community, different MLK’s for different faith based ocmmunities, the MLK of the younger generation, the MLK of the deep south white community, etc, etc). In other words, this is not just a hypothetical question of which MLK we would *like* to have, but a very real question of which community’s version of MLK will we listen to and recognize (should we have the power to make those distinctions).
April 8, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Matthew Yglesias
What Charlie said. It’s good — and important — that people of good conscience try to take advantage of MLK-related remembrances and whatever else to build a more authentic understanding of King and his work.
But I think it’s clear that the loss of this authentic King was part and parcel of the process by which King became a celebrated national icon. There was no alternative path in which King the Radical becomes a broadly-celebrated national hero. But the sanded-down King is still both a pretty good national hero to have as far as these things go, and also an entry point for further discussion of those aspects of King’s work and legacy that aren’t nearly so easily cooptable by the powers that be.
April 27, 2008 at 8:18 pm
charlieford
Just thought I’d share with ya’all that I turned this into a paper assignment in an Intro class (ie, US History Survey–almost all non-majors, sophomores and freshmen). I had them read tha tail of the “Dream” speech, most of the 1967 “Breaking Silence” speech, and Kai Wright’s piece in the Prospect. I asked them to frame it in terms of “mythic King” vs. “real King,” and why the two are out there, why the one is more palatable, and to evaluate the whole thing in whatever terms appealed to them. For about half, that was slightly ambitious. BUT: I think this was one of the most engaging papers I’ve assigned in some 10 years of teaching–ie, about 80% of the students really got into it. They almost all admired King enormously already (thank the schools–some had had King family members visit in elementary school) but to a MAN/WOMAN, none knew of the radical King. Maybe 2, out of 70, were disappointed that he’d criticize his nation when it was at war, but almost all were deeply challenged by his more radical analysis of US distemper. If you’ve read enough papers, you can tell when people are passionate, and when they’re feigning interest. Lot of passion from this assignment. Fun to grade, too. I thank Ari, Eric, and the EAW community for the inspiration to do it.
April 28, 2008 at 10:51 am
Getting Good Work from Students « The Edge of the American West
[...] 28, 2008 in pedagogy by ari In a comment spurred by this post on MLK and popular memory, charlieford wrote: Just thought I’d share with [...]